“…we killed 26 times more than they did and we still lost.”
This is a question that Mr.G. William Davenport, former Administrative Law Judge (1994-2015), chose to answer on Quora. Here’s what he had to say:
You ask why America is obsessed with the Viet Nam War.
Everyone who is reading this lost someone in Viet Nam. War is about personal loss more than it is about statistics. Joseph Stalin actually defined it well — “The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic.”
Each American loss was personal — to a wife, a child, a brother/sister, a parent, a cousin, a friend. We cannot get over the personal loss.
And why did we lose these young men? The Government lied to the American people, over and over, about why we were in Viet Nam. What our goals were. And also about one other key point.
Did you know that America never had a plan to “win” the war? It’s true. Look up any news magazine of the period and read about our strategic plan, which was merely to prevent the enemy from winning. Our method? Tit for tat killing, a life for a life… blah, blah, blah, on and on, forever, world without end, amen. You see, we were so brilliant (cue file footage of Defense Secretary McNamara) that we would make the idea of war itself obsolete. NO ONE could ever win. Not them (we would prevent it) and not us (we weren’t even trying). Once that was realized, the enemy would stop fighting, since it was useless, and peace would break out (cue file footage of My Little Pony characters, playing on screen).
Seriously, dear readers, I cannot make this up. None of my students in American Government Class (when I teach that in local colleges) ever can believe this. Yet it is totally true, and right there in the popular press from back in the day. Please do look it up on the Internet.
You are now quite ahead of me, readers. You realize that America was asking a generation of young Americans to flush their lives down the toilet in return for…. nothing at all. We weren’t even trying to win a stupid war, supporting a bunch of non communist crooks, against a bunch of communist thugs, fought in a backwater country in the back of beyond.
The miracle is, these young men loved their country so much that, even when they had no objective reason in the world to go, nearly all of those who were drafted did go, did serve, did fight, and did either get horribly wounded or killed.
It’s no wonder Americans cannot forget Viet Nam.
Mr. Davenport
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Here is another opinion from Paul Hosse, Editor/Publisher (2005-present)
Do you agree with any of these responses? Or, are you of the opinion that Americans should forget the war already? I’ve heard comments from my peers:
“The war’s over, It’s been fifty years.”
“Let it go and move on.”
“Nothing you do today will change what happened back then.”
Comments?
If you are interested in adding a response to this question on Quora, then go here: https://www.quora.com/Why-won’t-Americans-forget-about-the-Vietnam-War-We-killed-26-times-the-amount-we-lost
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Read an article about the war by a Washington think tank and they determined the war was about oil and rubber. When the oil in the gulf was discovered to be to deep for us to get to and a new method for making rubber was discovered the interest in the war subsided by the brave ,greedy and powerful men in charge. I despise to this day and after the war became a CI for various government acronym’s and found out even more of how terrible we are. Something happened at Montauk NY that made me quit and I know we do not have much time left so you had better keep your mind in order and stay strong.
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I joined the army in 1966 because I was told by the recruiter I was on the list to be drafted and if I joined I would have better chances to get a good assignment by enlisting.
Wrong! After basic my AIT was at Fort Knox-not armor but military correspondence then to Fort Sam for medical field service school-medical records. Next stop an Evacuation Hospital in Long Binh. I was lucky in some ways. I wasn’t fighting for my life but I was helping to save lives. I will never forget the carnage I saw, the lives lost and the lives changed forever!
That’s why I won’t forget it!
I came back in one piece but
50 years later a part of me never really left.
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All the articles from Cherries have been great. I have spoke to a middle school students and high school. One of the first questions seems to be: Have you killed anyone? They must think there is glory in that, when there is not. They must think it is cowboys and Indians and when the games is over, everyone gets up and start the game again. It is not even close. How do we impress that on the mind of 14-18 year old kids (boys/girls) alike?
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Neal, I’d get photos of the war dead to show them that death is not a clean as on a video game (where this mentality you describe was born) and/or take them to a local VA hospital on a field trip to show how broken soldiers get…especially of those missing limbs. I would also suggest showing the website from the wall so they can put a face with the name and then let them ponder about the vast quantity of dead. Finally, present a scenario where each student picks a special friend or neighbor and put them into the position of witnessing that person’s death (hit by bus, I-beam falls on them from the sky, motorcycle crash, robbery, etc) and how gruesome that would be to lose that person forever…then flip the coin and have them be the bus driver, construction worker, vehicle driver and ask how they would feel for having caused that death and have to live with the guilt forever. What about that person’s family and relatives? There is no valor in killing somebody no matter who you are. That may convince them. Hope it helps! / John
On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:36 AM, Cherries – A Vietnam War Novel wrote:
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There are nearly as many different opinions here on the Vietnam War and it’s remembering it as there are those replying. The Vietnam War has, to say the least, been controversial almost from the beginning. Some of the replies were well considered and insightful while others were tainted by anger and resentment. The Vietnam Center and Vietnam Archives at Texas Tech University in Lubock have become the repository of the history of the Vietnam War and nearly all things related to that War. It’d Director is a fine scholar named Jim Richtner. They have long held annual conferences in which the North Vietnamese, Viet Cong, South Vietnamese and American generals and leaders come together to discuss the facts relating to the war. Much can be learned there. Unlike WWI and WWII, literally thousands of U.S. servicemen have chronicled their experiences in the Vietnam War in book form. Those books are as different as their authors and authors experiences in the war. I have only read perhaps a dozen books on the Vietnam War but, to my knowledge, I’ve not read any book or seen any movie or documentary that captures the key essence of that War. I frankly admit that I have not yet allotted the time to see the Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War.
Concerning my own self, I though I had returned from the war unscathed but I’ve discovered that is not so. I harbor a lingering resentment of those who believe the most differently about the war than myself. To their credit, those of the other opinion are sometimes not well considered or rational scholars of the war. Sometimes the nearest thing to scholars, are mostly historians, who sometimes had enduring opinions on the subject before they became scholars of it. I could write a volume but will end my comments here. I salute those of you who replied and managed to touch upon critical parts of the essence of the Vietnam War.
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I for one will never let America forget. I and other Veterans who came after owe a great debt to those Vietnam Veterans, even after the way they were treated when they returned, they have done all they can to ensure it would never happen to another serviceman or servicewoman again. They used the power of a Americas guilt from Vietnam to raise attention to the debt that was owed all of those who serve. It is shameful that this government is turning its back on all the Vietnam Veterans who suffer all sorts of maladies from their service, withholding proper diagnosis and treatment as a hedge to spending funds, waiting and counting the days until they are all gone. I will continue to fight for my brothers like they fought for me. Lest we Forget!
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I take care of 2 highly decorated vets. Both diabetic, Parkinson s, ischemic heart, PTSD. IN country 67 & 68. Both lost a 40 year old daughter within days of each other due to Agent Orange, just last June. One of those daughters were mine. Another daughter is similarly affected. Now I watch as my husband and his army buddy suffer and die before my eyes.
HE’LL NO! IT AIN’T OVER!
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Nobody cares about VN unless they served there or lost someone close. It is as relevant to the present generation as the Spanish-American war was to our. You just got to let it go.
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Shit happens. Deal with it. Here is what is happening now: We boomers are getting old, becoming the old codgers we thought our parents to be at that time. Looking back on that time, we see a great divide between “them that went, and them that didn’t.'”
Our children, grandchildren. . . they will not understand, unless, after our passing, they can view the history and make sense of it all, reconciling it– what our intentions were, which were noble, but not realistic, not workable. We didn’t know it at the time. Our leaders didn’t know it. Lyndon, the big Texan ,turned around after Kennedy had been shot and he thought: not on my watch, boys! is America gonna lose any damn war.! Not on my watch. It was a grand screw-up, but with noble intentions.
And yet, and yet . . . we our better off for it. It had to happen. It was our clumsy way of drawing the cold war to a close.
And we did, in the long run, win against the communists. Reagan told Gorbachev to tear down the wall. A few years later, they tore down the damn wall.
So we won the great world-debate about republican-democracy vs. communism. We won it in 1989 when the foot-dragging totalitarians of eastern Europe and Russia and ultimately even China (by their own choice) conceded to the flood of freedom that we had tried to baptise them with.
We won! and that whole damn Vietnam debacle played its part in that. We should thank all the boys who went and did what we asked or commanded them to do.
And today, it you go to Vietnam, as my daughters have done, you will find that they welcome Americans with open arms. There is a tender place in their heart for us, because they understand what we were trying to do, if if we did screw it up.
And there is a tender place in our hearts for them.
And we Americans still have more freedom than any other citizens of the world. Let that be our testimony: we are a free people, who tolerated loss, tolerated defeat, allowed protest and freedom of speech. We are free and we were just trying to actualize President Kennedy’s declaration that we would “bear any burden” for the freedom of man. “Bear any burden”, including even loss of a damn mismanaged war.
It’s all good, friends. You guys who went, and gave it a shot, thank you! Thank you for your service, and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.
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Thank you CareyRowland for the truth and wisdom in your well written and heartfelt words regarding the history of this extremely emotional conflict. I have been deployed 4 times in Iraq and Afghanistan. I pray the same will be said in the future regarding the spread of peace and human co-existence in those lands and their people. May the truth of our Creator and Savior be self evident to all mankind to prevent future loss of life and compassion for our fellow man. But peace on earth is not written, I will continue to fly my CH-47 into combat instead of bringing food and water to those less fortunate in the world. So to all of you complaining about the reason for the conflict, understand that at it’s core, this was and always will be a conflict of man and God. Thank you Veterans for your courage, your patriotism, your strength, and know that you are loved.
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Thank you, Mr. Nelson for your comment. We pray for our troops, and especially those on active duty. Fly true in fair winds and success for your future.
On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Cherries – A Vietnam War Novel wrote:
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If we are truly grateful to our veterans and honor their service to our country, then no war or its details should be forgotten no matter the outcome. Unless you served, you do not understand the sacrifice and the scars we carry. To all my fellow Vietnam Vets—Welcome Home.
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I was an Infantryman in the 25th Inf Div, you got it wrong it is the American people who lost this war with their protest, if you listen to the North VN leaders who have how stated they were ready to give up when Nixon was bombing the hell out of the North in Dec before we pulled out. Talk to Wayne Smith a POW who was in one of Hanoi prison camps when the bombs were hitting, OUR US Soliders who were being held were glad, he told me that the guards were scared shit and running. So don’t say we lost the Liberal News and College Protestors lost the war. Went to VN as a E-3 made it to E-6 Staff Sgt. spent the year in the field and got a PURPLE HEART, came back and went to college and earn a BS and was given a hard time some of the so called teacher and student draft dodger but went to school and got my degree/ We were not quitters. Proud to be an AMERICAN and Proud to have serve my Country and dodge the draft. Did 2 years.
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The story about the North Vietnamese leaders saying they were ready to give up is an internet rumor; long since debunked.
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The North Vietnamese walked away from the Paris peace talks because they didn’t like the terms the US and South Vietnam were offering..to get them back to the peace talks, Nixon for the first time unleashed some power on Hanoi..unrelentess for 11 days they bombed the shot out of them..The North used all of it’s anti-aircraft rounds until they ran out, defenseless against the brutal bombing, they sent word the would go back to peace talks if we stopped the bombing. There in was the mistake..Another 11 days of relentless bombing would have led to an unconditional surrender and once again, armchair politicians let them off the hook. It was no “story” Joe..we had them on their knees and Washington let them ff the hook..Whoever “debunked” it is full of shit. Guess you had to be there…
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Well said Terry we who were sent followed the war and know what happen, I will never forget the 25 Brothers my Company lost in my 12 months and could not tell you how many more were physically wounded well into the hundred if not more for sure.
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It was debunked because it was never said. Please provide a source.
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Nightline ABC I can’t give you the year is more than 10 years ago and it was a General from the NVA. No you can believe what you want, I don’t know if you served or not or was a REMF, if you did serve you know what that is.
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I thought that more than once during my tour in VN, One day we were taking fire from within the rubber trees and we were told not to return fire so we had grab some altitude and get out of there before we were shot without being allowed to fire a shot, I was thinking as we flew away that this was a hell of away to win a war,
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Joe your wrong I saw it on late night news where they were interviewed by a major network and that is what they said it was about 10mto 15 years ago That is only time they would put it after 11:30PM, I think it was ABC at the time. It is more than a internet rumor. Sorry you’ll never know what happen, listing to the draft dodger, and yes Donald Trump was a draft dodger in my book and now he trying to make it up, so sad
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I’m with you Jim. I was there from Nov 67 to Aug 24 68 in the 3/4 Cav. Got 3 Purple Hearts. Got my degree too on the GI Bill
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Jim: This REMF salutes you.
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Thank you, I didn’t dislike the REMF as we needed you, I was hoping to get sent back but it didn’t happen, the spot they had for me had to given to a guy we called shaky, as we were afraid he get everyone killed so they gave him a job I was to get when I was a E-4 got promoted and no jobs open for me but to stay in the field, again THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
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Yet you attempt to discredit my point by implying I was a REMF or didn’t serve. I did serve, and although I wasn’t in the bush 24/7 I saw my share of action. However, that does not have any bearing on the issue. My understanding is that, just like many stories attributed to Giap and other’s “who we heard” ….they are not based upon fact; but rather wishful thinking.
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Vietnam was a defining period in our countries history. The first time a vocal minority set the course of a war and the defeat of a super power. The first time the public turned on and demeaned the service men they sent to war. The first war where political considerations dictated and micromanaged the battlefield.
Why can’t we forget Vietnam? Could it be guilt from those who failed to honor the courage and sacrifice of those who served? Could it be the anger of being described as a drug crazed, baby killer and treated as a criminal despite honorable service in a difficult situation?
The Johnson administration was unconsciously inept. Relying on WWII tactics and leaders while deathly afraid of intervention by the Chinese created a No Win situation.
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I have returned to Vietnam six times since the conflict. The Vietnamese are actually a peaceful people. I spoke to former and current military officers and former soldiers. I pointed out that there are still mental POW’s in both Vietnam and America. I hope to go back again.
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Mr. Davenport, and most others commenting, are clueless and have studied the war about fifteen minutes after they left the theater (assuming they served). Many ways to answer, but one is just to know the history of the war beyond what the leftist media “reported.” Following TET ’68, the US and its allies beat the crap out of the communists and Nixon was able to show NVN the futility of carrying on against a government (Nixon’s) who wanted to win the war. So they signed a peace treaty in 1973, the US troops were gone, the POWs released, the government in Saigon was in place, 90% of SVN was under government control. Then the left-leaning US Congress cut off funding and abrogated all of our obligations to the people of SVN. The communists walked in two years later and the resulting SVN deaths were in the hundreds of thousands (counting boat people) No one “lost.” We forfeited all we had paid for with American and Allies blood. Wallow in frustration and ignorance if you must, but read history as reported by other than the NYTimes and Washington Post.
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Phillip J. You did a good job of summarizing the chronological history of events. They are accurate as I remember it. (Vietnam & Grenada Veteran)
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Unfortunately, on contrary of the World War II and Korea War, the participation of the United States in the Vietnam War was worthless for the rest of the world.
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Some people still have no idea what the war was like for us Nam Vets. Over the years I have met people who have asked me questions that were so far from the reality of anything that I experienced in Nam That I just wanted to scream WTF ( Where the fxxk) did you hear that??? Some of these people asking these questions were from my own generation. Are they passing along what they believe to their own children ? It just pisses me off to no end when I am asked such dumb ass questions. You Vietnam vets know just what i’m say’n. Americans will not forget the Vietnam war but there’s so many of them that have got the story mostly wrong.
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When you forget you do not learn. NEVER FORGET. Many/ most that forget may be the ones who had no stake in the war. Take for example “King Trump”. What was he doing at age 19 and today at age 71??
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He’s cleaning up the mess you and your libturd friends started back in the 60’s. I would forget the Vietnam War, if I could. On some days, I’d even opt for a complete Mind Erasing Tool, ala MIB. Let all the good go, just to forget the bad. But we can’t. And all your lying about it won’t change a thing either. We DID WIN the war, and if your Gerald Ford had any balls he’d have KEPT America’s promise to the south and given them the support they needed instead of caving to the Democrats.
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I also wish I could for get the war , I can’t sleep at night, I’m always reliving that year and the 2 years after I return home the hate that was shown to us for going, it was hard to go out, lost my girlfriend and had a lot of sad days. Don’t tell me we don’t know what were talking about we live it, we were the ones who got shot at had incoming and cared for our brothers, not sitting on a college campus and protesting.
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Mr. Davenport and I see it the same way.
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Why won’t America forget about the Revolutionary War? or the War of 1812, or how about the Civil War , Why not forget about WW1 and the BIG one WWll?? How about we forget about Iraq and Afghanistan to ?
“WHY WON’T AMERICANS FORGET ABOUT THE VIETNAM WAR?” this has got to be the stupidest fucking question I have ever read. walks away shaking my head. That had to be asked by a non american.
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Excellent
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To this day won’t trust anything the media or government pukes out.All I can do is inform my family and friends about the REAL story.I tell young people not to enlist unless they try to invade our country. Medic Vietnam Vet
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This Friday, Mar. 16th, is the 50th anniversary of the My Lai incident. May God bless William F. Calley and may God damn his left-wing detractors.
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Ted Roberts, you approve of the massacre of 504 moms, dads and children and the fact no one person served time for the mass murders. Sir, you are one sick individual. Plus you approved the murders of 5 Kent State students and not one person prosecuted, sir, you are one sick individual,
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Payback, my friend, is a b*tch. Why not focus on some of the atrocities committed by the Cong. Your priorities are convoluted.
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Over two million of us served in Vietnam. 99.9% of us did not shoot down unarmed women and children. There is no excuse for what happened at My Lai.
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C’est la vie, c’est la guerre
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Great comments. A whole lot of truth about politicians telling the military how to fight a war. To those who avoided going, go back in time and live it and then tell us your thoughts. Dec 68 – Dec 69, Jan 73-Mar 73, Oct 73-Jan 74.
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