USS Maddox
I know we all were told that North Vietnam fired upon two U.S. Navy Destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin and that this second event within two days gave our country a reason to go to war. It was learned many years later that this second event never took place. Here is an eyewitness report on what actually happened and how it fooled everyone.
By Joel Ross
This is a special issue of Ross Rant – I was there and witnessed what and how it happened as it happened.
In 1964, I was supply officer of Kennebec AO36, a US Navy fleet oiler and supply ship. We operated in the South China Sea in 1964. In July 1964 we came into Subic Bay to reload and resupply. While there they loaded a container on our deck probably measuring 8×8 or maybe 8×10. Think of a small shipping container. We were ordered to not have any involvement with the capsule, or the two men operating it. After two weeks at sea, the capsule was offloaded and put aboard Turner Joy -one of the two destroyers involved in the later Gulf of Tonkin incident.

USS Kennebec AO36
While it was aboard my ship I did get a brief look inside, and it was filled with all sorts of electronic gear with antenna on top. I later learned it was an electronic warfare unit able to electronically simulate images on radar and sonar scopes making it appear to the operator that there was an enemy ship, torpedoes, or planes attacking when in fact there was nothing really there. So now this electronic warfare capsule was transferred aboard Turner Joy. (It might have been on Madox, but I cannot recall 60 years later). If you are old enough you will recall that in 1964 there was a widespread fear that if we did not stop the Communists in Vietnam, then they would take over all of SE Asia. That was the prevailing view in Washington and in the media. There was intense pressure to stop them. In 1964 we had a small number of special forces trainers in S Vietnam, but that was deemed not sufficient to stop the N Vietnamese.

USS Turner Joy
So, Turner Joy, Maddox, and my ship left port from Subic Bay around August 1 and sailed just off the coast of N Vietnam. The two destroyers were assigned a route just beyond the 12-mile limit, and we were assigned to standby 60 miles to the east. On the night of August 2, the two destroyers reported they were under torpedo attack by N Vietnamese patrol boats, and had engaged them. A second attack was reported on August 4.

P-4 torpedo boat, similar to those used by the North Vietnamese military
Both attacks took place at night when there was no moon. US aircraft were sent to support the two ships but never could find any sign of any N Vietnamese patrol boats. No torpedoes hit either destroyer. No gunfire was spotted coming from any patrol boats. The next morning, we joined with the two destroyers, and with one on each side, we refueled them. A phone line was strung across my ship to allow the two captains to have a private conversation comparing notes. There was a set of headphones on my ship connected to that phone line. We are ordered to not pick up the headphones. I decided this was a major moment in history, and I was not going to miss my opportunity, so I picked up the headphones and listened until the captain spotted me even though I was far aft and I thought hunkered down out of sight. What I heard was the battle reports of each captain. One said they had detected 12 torpedoes and the other said that was odd since they only detected two. I thought that was weird since both ships had the same model sonar system and they were sailing in tandem.

Chart showing the track of the USS Maddox, July 31 – August 2, 1964 (date of first incident)
Truth – there never was any attack. It was all a setup using that capsule of electronics to simulate the attack. Neither captain knew the truth because they needed them to believe it and report an attack as happening. Macnamara admitted before he died that there was never an attack, but he claimed it was all “a mistake”. A professor from Claremont College actually went to N Vietnam about thirty years ago ( I no longer recall when) and he talked to the patrol boat officers who said they never left port that night. I spoke to him after he returned and got his full report. Last week another US military source reported the whole thing was a hoax. Shortly after the purported attacks we sailed alongside the carrier, and I watched as they launched the first air attacks on N Vietnam, so the US became involved in the war full-time.

Manatee refuels Ticonderoga on 15 July 1965. U.S. Navy photo.
I am convinced that what really happened was LBJ needed an excuse to go to war, and he and CIA concocted this incident to provide the basis for declaring war. The capsule was aboard my ship first to allow the two spooks to practice the required torpedo simulations. Since we were a supply ship we did not have sonar so they were free to practice simulating torpedoes without us ever knowing what they were really doing in that capsule. I am possibly the only person still alive who was there and who knows what really happened that night. Almost nobody on my ship ever knew what was really going on in that capsule. Only a small few of us were informed by the captain. I decided to go fully public now since if I die, nobody will ever have the true whole story of how America became involved in the Vietnam War. The real tragedy is that 58,000 young Americans died there for nothing but a terrible decision by LBJ.
If any of you have good connections to valid historians and want to forward this to them, please do. It needs to be in the historical record.
Admin: This special edition of “The Ross Rant” was emailed to my attention on August 23, 2023.
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To now realize that JFK was murdered (assassinated) by our own Government from planning to completion, all to cancel the return to the Gold standard, and preserve the secret doings of the Federal Reserve it is now apparent hat ANYTHING is possible when an objective becomes reality and achieved by any and all means possible.
TOWNCAR
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The JFK files now released and evidently seen on FaceBook was a deliberately preplanned assassination choreographed by our own shadow government just because JFK wanted to return to the Gold backing for the Dollar, and the prevailing “wisdom” dictated that the Gold was Sold in favor of the continuance of the Federal Reserve that the leaders could control the purse strings at whatever the “Objective of the moment” may require. I got my copy which I sent to my shotgun list and gave copies to friends and let them see just how “free” our Freedom really is. I want to put my taxes into ESCROW until such time as it is safe to pay them to a legitimate US Treasury.
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“And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” Thank you, thank you, thank you! I recently read an article about the SOG program. This is a program dear to my heart because a SOG soldier from my hometown is still MIA so I read everything I find on the subject. I was horrified to read that a SOG team was ordered to sail in a fast boat to Haiphong Harbor to fire upon the harbor. The NVA chased them but not for long. Since there was no response acceptable to the politicians the SOG team was sent out again the next morning to repeat the attack. At that time the NVA chased them and fired at them while the Maddox was in the Gulf. Never did they fire at the Maddox, confirmed by sailors on the Maddox. This was obviously a political stunt to draw us into the war. People forget that it was Eisenhower who warned the nation about the military industrial complex whose greed and lobbying have cost us so much in blood and debt. Sadly, this pathetic, corrupt method of drawing us into wars we have no business fighting was ignored or forgotten because pure lies got us entangled in Iraq, another devastatingly costly war to our soldiers and tax payers. I meet so many troops who still have trouble coming to terms that their lives were irrevocably harmed by political lies, Vietnam veterans and Iraqi war veterans. I hope that schools are teaching so much more on these actions than they were in the 80’s when much of the SOG program remained classified and when people were still not willing to talk about an unpopular war that left them with such profound sadness, anger, and bitterness. I believe this last article was in the book, “Long Time Passing”, but it may have been in an article on this site. “the best and the brightest”? That applies to our troops, not the corrupt government that got us bogged down in an unwinnable war.
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See: MG Smedley Butler, USMC (Ret), “War is A Racet” (sp), 1931.
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Bill’s IPhone
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Never forget the power of the military industrial complex and profiteering as a primary influence on decisions from the top. In MHO all of US war involvement since WWII has been driven by this motive. So it really doesn’t matter what excuse was used to get involved with a war in SE Asia (and later in the Middle East) – bottom line, its always all about the money….
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I was in Dong Ha 67-68. And 68 Tet Offensive. I have always believed that LBJ purposely started that war with the Gulf of Tonken Hoax. In the following year he hugely escalated by sending 300,000 new American Troops to South Vietnam. LBJ implemented the Draft and thousands of Americans were inducted and sent to War without volunteering. He also increased the bombing of North Vietnam dramatically. And from that point on He micromanaged every aspect of the Vietnam War, until 1968 when he realized he could not be re-elected as president, and so in March 1968, he went on National TV and did his Pontius Pilate imitation. And told the world that he would not seek re-election. So I believe every single word in this account of the Truth about The Gulf of Tonken incident that was LBJ’s excuse to get America neck deep in the Vietnam War.
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Johnson made a lot of bad decisions. I do not doubt this for a second. He got a lot of troops killed and maimed with his cease fires every time we were beating them badly.
Feb68 to Mar.69 2/4 3D Mar Div.
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All said and done…Ask the 58,479 dead if they believe this article, You just can.t trust our Uncle Sam anymore.
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I don’t think the attack on Turner Joy or Maddox is entirely true. Too many inconsistencies in the report. My two cents.
I served in the Gulf of Tonkin 66’67’68’
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Rookie we didn’t get it🇺🇸😎
Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPad
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This is from a Ticonderoga Helicopter flying that night in the Gulf of Tonkin
I was on plane guard that night! When I heard the catapult fire and heard the afterburners I knew I was not where I was supposed to be. The next morning I visited with 1 of the F-8 pilots that had launched. He described in detail the blow by blow encounter. He told me he had rolled in on 1 of the PT boats and fired 2 rockets. The PT boat did not get hit but did not break off the attack. The next time he sent his rocket pod to salvo and turned the boat into toothpicks. At that point the second boat turned tail for shore . It all seemed pretty real to me on the Tico.
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Excellent information. I believe in Admiral Jim Stockdale’s book “In Love and War”, he describes this incident very closely. He was a pilot sent out to see what was happening that night, and he said that he never saw anything except our ships, and he doubted that there were any enemy ships there at all.
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Why don’t we have any images of. the damage done by the NVA attackers?
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Went aboard the USS Turner Joy (DD-951 while berthed in Bremerton several years ago now…for it is classified as a museum ship since 1991. After touring the ship, I overheard a couple of older gentlemen stating that the Gulf of Tonkin “incident” was faked, so LBJ had a good reason to get the U.S. totally involved…one even said he was stationed on the ship at the time and there was no torpedo attack(s) by the north as claimed by the WH….but simply false echoes or perhaps flying fish wakes, which to the inexperienced sonar operators looking like oncoming torpedoes… interesting story for sure.
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We have seldom been told the truth, the Warren Report about the death of JFK is still in a fog. Weapons of Mass Destruction and Saddam Hussein, his army completely destroyed in the first Gulf War. He never had any WMD’s, but he could not declare that as he had been at War with Iran. Declaring that he did not would have invited Iran to invade, so we manufactured evidence and lied. The entire history of Vietnam goes back to WWII, and that Uncle Ho was a US Allie and appealed for independence after WWII ended, and we ignored them. Read David Halberstam ‘s “The Coldest Winter” to get a sense of post WWII and what led to the Korean War & Vietnam. Watch the movie “The Post” about Ben Bradley and Katherine Graham of the Washington Post regarding “The Pentagon Papers” and the New York Time writer who broke that story Neil Sheehan, and his book “A Bright Shinning Lie”. About 40,000 men died in Vietnam after the Pentagon knew it was an unwinnable war.
I just attended a VA sponsored event regarding Veteran Suicide, we know that the largest factor is veteran homelessness, and the VA claims that they have reduced the number of homeless vets. We know that 20 to 30 vets commit suicide annually, is that why the number of veteran homeless numbers are going down.? We lie to ourselves all of the time, and no doubt the reason for the escalation of military involvement in Vietnam as told is untrue. It was never declared a War which only Congress can do, and never did, society took out their anger at the Vietnam Veterans. And look at the lies today, Trump has never told the truth about anything in his entire life, except for his name, and even that was changed by his grandfather
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JFK was supposedly considering removal of American advisors from Nam and a decision was forthcoming. Coincidentally, his assassination precluded that.
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Yes, I just read a speech that JFK gave at a college commencement address June 6, 1963 and specifically made it clear that he was intending to withdraw all US Advisors and personnel from Vietnam. As well he was stating that he wanted to approach USSR to walk back the Arms Race and try to warm the Cold War.
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Have you ever seen the movie “Executive Action” about the assanation of JFK. It really makes you wonder if Oswald was really the lone shooter.
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I read about the hoax in The Pentagon Papers but not about this technical explanation behind it. I read TPP long after the war, ’80s, ’90s. Was why I did not believe the WMD accusations that precipitated Iraq invasion – no real proof was ever presented.
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If this is truly valid it just makes all of us as Vets sick . Our country continues to slip further into a very treacherous swamp of lies and dishonest media and govt. we need to do better or our children have no future in a free and honest society.
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Interesting. I was a Radio Research lingie for a couple years.
It’d be interesting to have an anthology of stories about deception created by both sides.
I read in “Nixonland” about the NVA masquerading as RVN radio people during the 1971 Laos fiasco and asking for artillery and/or air support on enemy positions. The coordinates given were locations of RVN forces.
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I ain’t buying it ….
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Sent from my iPad
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The report below seems to validate the first-hand experience of Joel Ross.
From a 30-year Tokin Gulf Aniversary post: https://fair.org/media-beat-column/30-year-anniversary-tonkin-gulf-lie-launched-vietnam-war/
“On the night of Aug. 4, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by North Vietnamese PT boats had occurred earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf — a report cited by President Johnson as he went on national TV that evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against North Vietnam.
But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to “retaliate” for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack that never happened.
Prior to the U.S. air strikes, top officials in Washington had reason to doubt that any Aug. 4 attack by North Vietnam had occurred. Cables from the U.S. task force commander in the Tonkin Gulf, Captain John J. Herrick, referred to “freak weather effects,” “almost total darkness” and an “overeager sonarman” who “was hearing ship’s own propeller beat.”
One of the Navy pilots flying overhead that night was squadron commander James Stockdale, who gained fame later as a POW and then Ross Perot’s vice presidential candidate. “I had the best seat in the house to watch that event,” recalled Stockdale a few years ago, “and our destroyers were just shooting at phantom targets — there were no PT boats there…. There was nothing there but black water and American fire power.”
In 1965, Lyndon Johnson commented: “For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there.”
But Johnson’s deceitful speech of Aug. 4, 1964, won accolades from editorial writers. The president, proclaimed the New York Times, “went to the American people last night with the somber facts.” The Los Angeles Times urged Americans to “face the fact that the Communists, by their attack on American vessels in international waters, have themselves escalated the hostilities.”
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I wrote the above reply. Didn’t mean to be anonymous.
Jim Herren USMC 1965-68
Two Tours RVN
H co 2nd Btn 7th Reg &
1st Recon Btn
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The report only confirms that there were not two NV patrol boat attacks upon the USS Maddox. OTOH, the report does not confirm Ross’ version implying that two CIA spooks used an electronic device to simulate those attacks.
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Johnson was equally deceitful in planning the attack on the USS Liberty in 1968.
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Shared with John here:
https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/category/wartime/vietnam-era/
You never know…
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I’m sure it’s probably true. The French told us not to get involved, to stay out of Vietnam. We had the arrogance to think we could do better than anyone else. Would not use our Australian and New Zealand allies superior knowledge and experience in Southeast Asia either.
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The truth and admitted to by LBJ and McNamara later. They thought it would be over quickly! The are directly responsible for 58 thousand names on the wall!
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Hard to belive this story, if it is true more people know and would have spoken up.
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If this is accurate, NSA will have records, as every communication (no doubt between the ship’s involved and CIA and/or JCS and/or the White Hose) into the U.S. first goes through NSA. Anyone can file a FOIA request with NSA or CIA using the details this gentleman has provided. Records should be declassified by now, but may have redactions.
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So, he disobeyed a direct order and listened on headphones to a private conversation between two ship captains, was caught doing so by his own captain but was not reprimanded or charged?? Over 50 years later, he just decided to reveal all of this. Got it.
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He was bobbing his head, captain thought he was listening to some surfers-sound 😉
But yeah… how did he know/understand what all those gizmos were for/did, by simply peeking into that box? Pretty sure the ‘spooks’ didn’t give him a tour…
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CIA why would they stop there? 9/11 and BUSH/CHENEY Twin Towers an inside job so we could have another war.
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Add to the list numerous countries legitimate elections overthrown by the CIA.
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If this is true it needs to be in history books. This is horrible’
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I like the way this poser ends his tale with the phrase ” .. if I die … ”
AS IF he is maybe NOT gonna die? Buddy: judgment ahoy.
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There is very little truth in his write up. I know because I was a crew member onboard Maddox during thje entire August events.
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