The author of this piece contacted me right after posting my article last week about how many Vietnam Vets are still alive. The debates relating to what constitutes a Vietnam Vet continued within both the comment section of the article and on my many FB group pages. This is worth a read and pretty much sums it all up.
Have you ever asked yourself that question? I have, and I’ve struggled with the answer since the day I returned home from Vietnam in January 1972. That in itself seems to be an odd statement. Of course, I am a Vietnam Veteran if I did a tour in Vietnam. Right? Well yeah, I was there but the question is: “Am I a ‘REAL’ Vietnam Veteran?”
When I think about all of the stories I have read, and the movies I have seen, “real” Vets had a much different experience than I had. I didn’t get shot; I didn’t even get wounded. Other than a battle with the delirious fevers of malaria, I came home unscathed… physically. So why wasn’t I a happy camper? What more could I have asked for? And why did I feel so guilty about that? And why did I have nightmares? And why do I even question whether I am a real Vet or not? None of it makes sense to me.
For many years after I came home, “back to the world”, I never talked to anyone about my Army service and I chose not to seek out other veterans. I kept to myself for the most part. But then on one unexpected occasion when I had an opportunity to speak with a fellow Vet who was a bit older than I was, he asked me what year I served in? When I replied “1971,” he laughed and said: “OHHH, that doesn’t really count, we had the war mostly all wrapped up by then!” I’m sure his intent wasn’t malicious, but man those words stung! And that for sure strongly reinforced my doubt… coming from another Veteran… Nope, I’m not a “real” Vet!
The most devastating years of the war as far as the number of casualties was during the peak years of 1967-1968-1969. That is when 2/3 of all of the war’s 58,318 American deaths occurred. Those three years were the heaviest combat years from what was America’s longest war at the time. Those were the times during the war that most of the books and movies were about. The guys who fought in the actual “heavy combat” during those three years were real Vets for sure. They have absolutely and unequivocally earned and certainly deserve the highest respect and recognition from all of us.
But what about the earlier 60’s and then the 70’s years of the war? Do those years count? As the war was winding down when I was there in 1971, the casualties had dropped way down. There were “only” 2,357 men killed. Only!!? That counts, right? Of course it does, those 2,357 men and the men who fought in the battles with them, large or small, are for sure real Vets, but what about the rest of us in 1971 and the other years? Should being a “real” Vet be defined as ONLY those who have been in “heavy combat” that resulted in heavy casualties?
I don’t think there is any doubt that receiving military orders to report to Vietnam for a one-year tour of duty was traumatic for anyone, no matter what year it was. The big unknown is: Will it be bad? or really bad? Will I ever come home again? Will I live or die? There’s no way around those thoughts. Those psychological contemplations and fears were real, and in my mind, all of us who had to face that basic reality from day one and going forward, are “real vets” regardless of what years we served in and regardless of what our assignments were.
However, I am sure that some may disagree, so let’s delve into it deeper to try to determine if some of my following listed encounters and experiences count toward being a “real” Vet or not.
Does just being assigned to an infantry unit as a rifleman and sometimes a grenadier and at times a machine gunner count?
Does pulling guard duty on the perimeter of an LZ or a Firebase or an Airbase, for 30 consecutive nights or longer without a day off count? Even though the “only” casualties that my unit suffered there were few?
Does going outside the wire with just a small squad of 6-8 men on dozens and dozens of ambush patrols overnight into the rice paddies count? Even though the “only” casualties my unit suffered there were from friendly fire?
Does the fear and exhaustion of carrying a rifle and humping a heavy rucksack up and down the mountains and hacking through the jungles of the dangerous Central Highlands count?
Does the intense fear that results from being shot at and pinned down by snipers as bullets from automatic weapons whiz by you on a hot and humid afternoon in the jungle count? When you are so scared that you’re holding your steel pot tight against your head and lying flat on the ground, trying to hide under your heavy rucksack which is your only cover? Even though none of that resulted in any casualties at all?
Does hearing the terrifying loud explosions of artillery rounds that came in so dangerously close that you can hear the shrapnel cutting the tree branches above and around you count? Even though there again we somehow luckily avoided casualties?
Does being in a convoy roadside ambush count? Seeing trucks get blown up, seeing soldiers wounded and bloodied? Seeing helicopter “dust-offs” landing to pick up the wounded? Hearing the sounds of the gun-truck’s 50 caliber machine guns firing up the hillside where the rockets were fired from, so very close by. Even though my platoon was rushed out of the kill zone and unable to return direct fire after the initial terrifying explosions, does any of that still count?
Does the fear and adrenalin of flying around the country in helicopters and being dropped into remote areas to perform search and destroy missions count? Even though we rarely made enemy contact?
After all, the casualties in my 1/22 infantry battalion were comparatively minimal during 1971 as the war was winding down, and as I stated earlier, I didn’t even get shot, or see any of my buddies get killed. I know of some that were killed while I was there, but I didn’t see it happen. So maybe that doesn’t count. None of what I saw or participated in would be called “heavy combat.” I have never been in a “real” combat battle. Real combat battles have names. Right?
The reality is: any battle that YOU are in is a big one, no matter how small it may be, because it doesn’t take a large enemy force or a big battle to kill you… it only takes one man, with one gun, to shoot you one time.
I don’t even want to get into how the majority US population felt about all of us Vets when we returned home, questioning why we as individual soldiers even chose to go over there in the first place! Chose!!? Everyone knows those regrettable stories about how disrespectful we Vietnam Veterans were treated. Not like “real” Veterans, that’s for sure!
And then there was the time that I was sitting around a campfire one night with 3 or 4 older Vets that were from the Korean War and WWII, drinking beer and listening quietly to their military service stories. Like many Viet Vets, I never talked much about Vietnam before. But I decided to join in and take a turn that night. I simply mentioned how hot and humid it was over there, and how much rain there was during the monsoon season, and how I hated sleeping on the wet ground. One of the old guys replied: “Well that’s your own fault because you didn’t do a good job trenching around your tent.” I cordially laughed and said “what tent? We didn’t have tents, we just draped ponchos over tree branches in the jungle!” The Old Vet then scolded me: “Why do you Vietnam guys always think you had it so bad and came back always whining and complaining about how bad your time over there was!?” Ouch!
Well, maybe I shouldn’t have dropped it, but I bit my tongue, as I was raised not to talk back to my elders. I think you can see the point though, that negative attitude was prevalent, not only in American society as a whole but also in some of the older Vets from previous wars as well. And it had a devastating effect. Yep, it reinforced that I wasn’t a “real” vet.
Even some of older Veterans organizations such as the VFW that were predominantly run by the much older “real” Vets back then, shunned and rejected us Vietnam Veterans. We were thought of as rogue soldiers that were not even in a declared (real) war. To them, Vietnam was simply just an unpopular, poorly run, failed police action. And we were not “real” war vets that were worthy of membership, regardless of the level of our combat experience. That will never happen again! Please note, the point is not to denigrate the VFW (or any other Veterans service organizations), as they serve a great purpose and need for many Veterans and have long ago reversed that type of unfair prejudice. The point is, that was just one example of the reality that we faced in our society upon returning home from war!
At some point, many many years later, actually fairly recently, I became involved with the DAV as a volunteer driver. I transported Veterans to and from their medical appointments at the VA hospital.
That was really the first time I had any serious interaction with other Veterans. And I discovered something that I never really gave much thought to before: There are tons of Veterans who served in Vietnam without seeing any combat, let alone “heavy combat.” The fact is, only a small percentage of those who served were in the infantry. The vast majority of the troops served in non-combat support roles while in Vietnam. However, the war engulfed the entire country of South Vietnam and there were no front lines or rear lines, so as a result, EVERYONE who served, lived with the reality that anyone could get hit at any time, no matter where they served in-country or what branch of the military they served in, or what year it was. The reality was that any base, large or small, could be subject to sapper attacks or incoming mortar rounds at any time. Still, those who served on the bases all bravely reported for their duty regardless of whatever unknown dangers and fears lie ahead of them. Does that count? I think it does.
I had a lot of free time while waiting for the guys to finish up with their Dr. appointments. So, I sometimes wandered around the VA medical center to kill time. I often walked past a doorway that opened up into a large room. There was a sign over top of the door that said “Heroes Hall.” I was amazed and wondered what elite honor group was allowed to go in there! I thought that must be some kind of private club. I would just peek in sometimes to see what “real” heroes looked like. But I couldn’t really see them very well, and I certainly wouldn’t dare go in there! I wasn’t even sure if I was a “real” Vet, and I was positive that I was no hero!
Eventually, when some of the guys that I was transporting as a volunteer, found out that I was also a Veteran, they invited me into Hero’s Hall to have a cup of coffee with them. Well, I could tell from talking with those guys that they were no different than me and certainly didn’t seem to be heroes either. It was interesting but surprising to discover that the men and women in Heroes Hall seemed to be just regular Veterans like me, and all Veterans were welcomed into Heroes Hall. After talking for a while and getting to know them better, they seemed to think that I was a “real” Vet too! I felt good about that.
Believe it or not, The Army thought I was a “real” war veteran. They awarded me the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB), along with some other medals that I put away in a drawer after returning home, hidden for 40 years. Even though I didn’t get them out again until I became a grandfather, it seems like that should count.
And as it turned out, the VA also thinks that I am a “real” Vet. The more I volunteered and the more time I spent in the VA facility, the more comfortable I became with it. I even started seeing some of the doctors there, and they found that I didn’t return home unscathed! The wounds just took a while to be diagnosed. Besides having had malaria, I have been diagnosed by the VA doctors as having service-connected PTSD, and also service-connected Cancer which the VA attributes to agent orange exposure in Vietnam.
It’s very possible that you didn’t come home unscathed either. The VA has a whole list of cancers and heart disease and diabetes and a lot of other medical ailments that they attribute to agent orange exposure. If you haven’t already, it’s worth checking into because many of us were exposed unknowingly to agent orange, regardless of our duty assignments and roles in combat or non-combat activity. Agent Orange wasn’t selective! You may have read the following assertion regarding the ticking time bomb named Agent Orange; which goes something like this: We survived, came home from the war, and brought death home with us. That makes me ask: how many of us are still dying from the war? And, does that count?
And, I found out that you didn’t have to be in “heavy combat” to suffer from PTSD. I went all those years without seeking treatment because I questioned whether I was even a “real” vet and therefore couldn’t possibly have PTSD (think denial!) So, if you have asked yourselves similar questions, like the ones that I have raised here, or have had some similar thoughts or feelings or doubts about the effects of your service, that in itself can be a form of or a part of PTSD. It’s estimated that 30% of Vietnam Veterans suffer from PTSD. It’s treatable and it’s worth seeking help for. AND it counts!
It has been more than ten years ago now that I wrote this preface in my book Rucksack Grunt :
“You can engage in a conversation with 1,000 different Vietnam Veterans and get 1,000 different stories about their war experience. Some guys had it bad; some guys had it not so bad. It all depends on what part of the country they were in, what year they served in, and what their specific MOS and duty assignments were.
They all served.“
So in closing…. To all of my fellow Vietnam Veterans:
If you can relate to this story in some way or if you have ever asked yourself: “Am I a Real Vietnam Veteran?”
Yes, WE all served!
and Yes, it all counts!
I like to think that is the answer.
An essay by Robert Kuhn
B-Co. 1/22 Infantry 1971-1972.
https://rucksackgrunt.com
With contributions by Michael Belis
C-Co. 1/22 Infantry 1970-1971.
www.1-22infantry.org
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CherriesWriter - Vietnam War website 
if you were within range of gunfire you were a vet. i was on merchant ships. perhaps not a llrp or marine, but i was ambushed in saigon, attacked in a rubber plantation and threatened by the vc in the hold of my discharging ship, fired on by mgs on the river to cholon. just doing the job.
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If the little toe of your right foot EVER touched the soil of the Republic of South Viet Nam, YOU ARE A VIETNAM VETERAN ! THERE IT IS!
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great article thanks,as a flying crew chief on c130e, I did two rotation in Vietnam 1964 and 1965,I have respect for ever veteran that went there whether you drove a truck or was on front lines in the jungle flying a plane you name it.we all had a job to do and I think we did it with honor, many died many were wounded with lifetime disability. Wear your veterans cap if you wish it’s not for recognition, it’s to honor our fellow men and women who have served. I’m 81 years old now I don’t need any recognition, but I’m proud to have serve with many great Americans in Vietnam.
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Very good discussion of how to deal with a guilt trip imposed thoughtlessly by (mostly) Vietnam Veterans who claimed the “high ground” of being in combat more than some of us other Vietnam Veterans. It’s time to end the artificial distinction who is and isn’t a Vietnam Veteran. All of us signed the same oath. All of us were obligated to follow orders to fight, to drive a truck or a helicopter, or to process mail. During WWII and during Korea, there was no distinction between “war era” veterans or “war” veterans. We were all in the same military defending the Constitution of the United States, no matter where our orders placed us…and when we returned, those who protested didn’t care where in the world we had served. The protesters realized we were all Vietnam Veterans.
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If you were there, then, you are a vet. We don’t need to make classes. If you drove a truck, If you unloaded cargo at Da Nang or pumped gas into tanks. you are a vietnam vet. let’s keep it simple. and honest, and fair. the NVA never made distinctions, neither should we.
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So true if you were there for a year or more you are a vietnam vet
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Looks like a 2200 -word essay desperately in search of an audience, sir. Not meaning to demean your effort but it seems to be a discourse with a prearranged feel good ending. If you went to Vietnam and got a CIB, you were an 11 Bravo. You had to engage the enemy to be awarded that. If you didn’t see “combat”, you should turn it in and ask to have it stricken from your 214. I’ve seen one chopper pilot awarded one but he was shot down and had to fight to get his crew back to civilization from west of the Trail. He also got a PHM.
As to whether you were there in 65 or 75, it matters little. Boots on the ground (BOTG) is the metric, not the year. Most of us take umbrage with the idea that Vietnam “Era” Vets try to stretch that Era definition to somehow encompass them as Vietnam Vets.
I did two years (70-72) with AirAm- most of it over the fence north of Thailand-way north… like Long Tieng north. I never gave it a thought as to whether I’m a real V Vet. Seems like you’re giving yourself a serious lipwhipping about nothing, sir.
Truth be told is if you go to a VFW bar, you’ll find it’s a miracle the population of the US didn’t decrease with 98% of the men in uniform in RVN. I don’t consider anyone a true BOTG Vet unless they got red clay between their toes. That includes the Squids unless they were brownwater. But then, I’ve heard folks who claim to have been there pronounce Bien Hoa as Be-in Ho-wha. I’ve met guys who were born in 1957 swear up and down they were there. Shoot. Maybe they own one of them Deloreans that can go back in time, too. Who cares?
As for how many BOTGs are left? A worthy discussion. Google articles swear it’s 850,000 but they’ve been quoting that same number since 2008. I’ve personally lost about 10 of my V buddies I represent before the VA just since 2016. At that rate nationally, I’d say our numbers are way down below 500 K easily. Remember, we have to count AirAm and US Medical Service folks in that number. VA adjudicates their claims, too.
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Right on! I repaired com/nav gear at Phi Bai 69-70 on anything that flew. I can still identify which aircraft by their sound. We got occasional rockets and mortars and were mostly safe, thanks to the grunts outside the wire. We were always waiting for the “next” volley, never knowing when it would come. TAD on carriers did not help. Tons of fuel, explosives and sometimes damaged planes coming in. Got home and had lots of anxiety and anger issues and became a raging alcoholic. PTSD was not a label back then. Almost attempted suicide and got help with AA program and got my demons under control after a few years and got my life back with a lot of help and good people who understand. 31 years sober now, still have demons but now we talk things out and sometimes snuggle. Some things never go away, but I have learned how to manage things now before they get out of control and live a pretty normal life.
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If you had Boots on the ground, slopping around in the mud, diving for cover during a mortar attack you might be a real Viet Nam Vet!! I served from Jan 28th / 68 to Feb 16th / 69. Was with 4th Infantry Division/ 4th Engr BN. A Co. up at Dak To then was moved to E Co Armor platoon as Tank Commander. Ran the Div Mine Roller up Hwy 19 between Plekiu, Kontum, Dak To. Everyone I came across did their job as best they could and only complained they didn’t have enuff ammo at times. All you guys out there—- give up that guilt shit!! You didn’t earn it!! You hold your heads high, I Damn sure do!!
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I had a similar experience in 1970. Some guy on his second tour told me how lucky I was. I suggested we go down to the evac hospital and tell them how lucky they are. But, as things turned out, I was lucky
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Well said….USMC “Vet” 1966-67
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July 12, 2021 at 1:06 pm
i would like to confuse the issue a bit more. I was a merchant marine officer on cargo ships, american export lines, for three years, back and forth to viet nam. we spent sometimes a month or more in one port depending on the cargo and the need. I do not believe we were counted as vets. It took about 30 years for the government to acknowledge we were even there. for myself, being bored sometimes, and anxious to see and do more, i volunteered and went on a number of supply missions to the fire bases. no body turned down extra hands, and my india purchased white shirt and shorts made me attractive target in the event of a problem, and provided some humor to the 130 crews. was i a veteran by the numbers? maybe, maybe not. but i was happy to serve.
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You could be a Veteran of the Merchant Marines. Are all the pilots who flew MATS are they veterans ? How about the reporters that stayed in Saigon for the 5 O’clock follies are they veterans. The rear Echelon are veterans. I served in foreword areas. When I came home I was greeted by protesters. I think it’s safe to say were were all Tourists because I cannot find a defining definition of veteran in any dictionary. Frank
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I live in Montreal part of the year. i was crossing the border a few years ago and some immigration/customs officer asked when i left the us. i told him 1971 or so. He said, you were a draft dodger. I said no. He kept pressing and i told him i had served on merchant ships for three years in vn. shortly after i wrote someone in veterans affairs and i got a small card, a vn service pin and a chest badge. the card said i had served. Not that it would mean anything to the guy at the border, but i decided i was not going to be insulted. carter pardoned those people that left the country. the customs guy was way out of line but i never pushed.
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Honor and Respect, Thank You For Your Brave Service Brothers And Sisters Vets. We ALL had our jobs do to toward Protecting Our Country and Our Freedom no matter what our duties entailed. I have as much respect and gratitude to Our Support Team as I do for MY Brother ‘Grunts’. Thank You for ALL you did to keep ‘Our Boots On The Ground Moving. Welcome Home to the Brothers and Sisters still with us to read this. Honor and Respect Our Fallen Brothers and Sisters and Their Loved Ones. God Bless You and God Bless America…!! 🇺🇸️🙏🙏🇺🇲..(The Big Red One, 1st/16th, Combat Medic, Full Year of 66. Proud to have been a Grunt ‘Doc’..)
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I think it is well written and he has a point being in-country at a air- base Army and Marines think you had a easy job, I was a Air Force Security Police and received Outstanding Unit Award with a V for Valor and in combat. People and Veterans think we did nothing but have fresh milk and ice cream. I went out on 2 search & destroy missions with the South Vietnamese Army. both in January 1968 before TeT 68. Yes combat. I get shit from all Veterans you expect pilots and air crew to get in combat air medals but we defended the aircraft and personnel of the Air Force . You can die in a clean uniform just as you can die in the jungle.Rockets, mortars and sappers.Convoy duty shit in a jeep with no armor. Some of Skycops,Security Police nick name learned as we went along and we were a defenses force and had to learn to be the light infantry for the Ar Force. Use of a m-60,50 cal,,m-79, mortars, patrolled in 3 man jeep on Highway One . Skycops have to defend jp-4 jet fuel, bombs 250,500, pound and bigger and yet you had it made , sure I didn’t sleep in the jungle but I was on op’s and lp’s once went into the DMZ with Marines(Dong Ha) it was a Marine Base but the Air Force had a top secret Radar site there and if the NVA sappers got in the wire the radar site was a key target plus the control tower and forward air controllers plus PJ Para-rescue were all Air Force in many Marine bases near the DMZ. Skycops lived as Marines on the base they gave us a lots of trash talk. But mortars, rockets 122 mm loved the air bases cause we just sat there and took it like the Marines. Air Bases were primary targets to the VC & NVA, Charlie can fly!
From a Skycop 67-68
Started at Cam Ranh AFB to Dong Ha
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Awesome!!! I was Naval Air! We were aboard the USS AMERICA CVA 66 1972-73 in SQUADRON VA-86! I never went to the VA until 2014!!! I joined the DAV in 2013! I have Ischemic Heart disease. In 1987 I had a heart attack and my LAD was 95 to 100 percent blocked. The hospital performed angioplasty and sent me home. That was in June. In November I got the symptoms again and ended up having a by-pass for Thanksgiving!!! I am doing okay with that.
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Having served in Signal, always admired those like yourself who were Infantry. What was memorable, for me, were the rocket attacks, and getting caught unprotected as they came in. In other words, I ducked. And when people ask about my time there and what I did, I tell them, I ducked. Successfully. I’d like to think that ducking — even if successful, allows that, perhaps, I’m a Vietnam veteran. In any case, YOU certainly are!
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So many thoughts come to mind about this article. First off, when one signs up for the “team,” one is not signing up to coach or manage, instead, by signing up, you are indicating a willingness to play a position when sent into the game. Coaches and managers decide what position you will play, as well as when/if you get into the game.
The fact that one showed up with the willingness to be a part of the big picture is all I need to consider someone else a vet. Not many of us realized at the time, that for each of us in the field of combat arms, it took seven individuals working in other capacities to support us…supply, pilots, medical, engineering, personnel, finance, and a host of other military occupational specialties. Whatever position you were called up to play, that makes you a vet. It has nothing to do with being shot at, or shooting back. You were assigned a job and you performed it, you watched out for the guys to the left and right of you, your patriotism in the process shrunk from country and family, to self and squad. Self-doubt after the fact is normal.
Myself, I was on Hamburger Hill in May 69, and continue to berate myself for not having done more. I still carry metal in my body…I should have done more!
For the author of this piece, YOU ARE A VET! Thanks for showing up and being part of the team
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Thank you for this article. Our family became a Gold Star family on 04-APR-69. I have met or had correspondence with many who knew him and was with him when he died. My husband and I have since volunteered with veterans groups to give back for all the sacrifice every veteran makes for our great nation. Visiting with veterans from different wars we noticed that the veterans from wars before Vietnam had a different outlook for when and where veterans served. If you served you were that war’s veteran. The place served and MO did not matter. They all knew that no matter where or what you did, it was still for winning the war. Someone has to be behind the scenes so those in the field in combat can do their fighting more efficiently. As far as my husband and I are concerned, anyone who served from 1959-1975 is a Vietnam Veteran. Thank you all for sacrificing your personal lives for our great nation and doing what your country asked you to do. Honor and respect you all
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The veterans of the Vietnam separated themselves
. Some of the vets distinguished them selves from the ridicule by saying they did not serve in Vietnam to separate them selves from the hatred shown toward the Vietnam Veterans who served in Nam . That’s where the Era Veterans Came from . In had a good friend serve in Iceland the same time I served with the 1st. Cav. In Nam and we were treated totally different.
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Excellent article! just another Vietnam Vet. And Proud of It!
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I liked this as a Vietnam Vet, but also didn’t like it as an American. Individual mutually reciprocated Self-Sovereignty as Equals with unity of All. Only my vote/opinion counts with me.
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