This is a controversial post. If we aren’t able to determine “WHO” is a Vietnam Vet, then how can one determine how many of us are still alive today? Check out this post and see if you can figure this out.
It was an incredibly tumultuous time in US history and, for that reason, it’s unclear how many people actually served during this struggle. The number of people who are Vietnam veterans in the first place is a number that is widely debated.
According to the American War Library website, it was concluded by the Department of Defense that their best estimate is that between 2,709,918 and 3,173,845 GIs served in Vietnam and its surrounding waters between the years 1954 and 1975.
These numbers do not include the Americans who served in Vietnam during World War II.
Still, other sources like the New York Times claim the number of Vietnam veterans is actually somewhere around 9.2 million.
This makes things a little confusing.
So, here we’ll dive a little bit deeper into how many Vietnam veterans are estimated to still be alive based on various approximations and predictions.
How Many Vietnam War Veterans Are Still Alive?
According to the American War Library, as of February 28, 2019, it is estimated that approximately 610,000 Americans who served in land forces during the Vietnam War or in air missions over Vietnam between 1954 and 1975 are still alive to this day.
Additionally, the American War Library approximated that around 164,000 Americans who served at sea in Vietnam waters during the same time are still alive today.
It should be duly noted that these numbers do not include the 2500 to 3000 US Air Force troops stationed in Guam, Thailand, and other countries that were involved in the Vietnam War effort. These numbers were not included since these service members were far removed from combat experience and did not spend any amount of time in harm’s way.
These numbers have come about due to the extensive research of various mortality indexes and sources by the American War Library which concluded that about one-third of those who served in the Vietnam War are still alive today.
Interestingly, the research concludes that Vietnam veterans seem to be dying at a similar rate to World War II veterans. Still, the American War Library continues to verify their accounts and come to more concrete conclusions.
What other conclusions have been made about the percentage of Vietnam veterans who are still alive?
How Many Vietnam Veterans Are Still Alive Today?
The New York Times reported that claims like those of the American War Library are false and that, instead of only one-third of Vietnam vets remaining, the number points to more than 75 percent of Vietnam veterans still living and breathing today.
In the article, the writer quotes Patrick S. Brady of Vietnam Veterans of America’s magazine. The VVA Veteran boils it down to a totally different conclusion that the American War Library drew.
Apparently, it’s been agreed upon that 800,000 Vietnam veterans had passed away by the year 2000. This is a reasonable number but you get very different notions of the death rate when you compare 800,000 to 2.7 million versus 800,000 out of 9.2 million.
So, where is the discrepancy in these numbers? It seems to be all about syntax.
It makes a big difference because stating that only one-third of Vietnam veterans are still alive today is much harsher than stating that three-quarters of Vietnam veterans are still alive and well.
The truth is that until Vietnam veterans can agree amongst themselves what constitutes a “real” Vietnam vet, the debate may continue.
Overall, the death rate of Vietnam veterans seems to be rather consistent if not better than other people their same age, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The New York Times estimated that, of the 8.4 million Vietnam veterans who were still alive in 2000, 1.1 million had died. It was also projected that, from here, 138,000 Vietnam veterans are expected to die each year.
Editorial comment by website administrator:
Personally, I’m going with the 610,000 estimate of 2 yrs. ago. I have lived with the 2.7 million number having served in Vietnam all along and believe the Times estimate refers to Era vets having served around the world during those war years. So, with the lower estimate of 610,000, over 2.1 million VN vets have died since 1975 – that’s an average of 44,000/year. The Vietnam Veterans of America have cited that they will remain an organization until ‘last man standing’. The youngest Vietnam Veteran is aged in the late 60’s today with life expectances estimated at 86 years old (for normal people). Agent Orange is impacting that timeline and those serving around the world were not affected by this wonderous life-robbing gift. So do Vietnam Veterans have twenty-three more years or only ten until the last man falls?
Here are two additional sources of information (added 9-3-2022) – updated in 2021:
https://www.americanwarlibrary.com/personnel/vietvet.htm
https://news.va.gov/89450/vietnam-war-veterans-honoring-served-memorial-day-2021/
Leave your thoughts below in the comment section.
https://www.americanwarlibrary.com/personnel/vietvet.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
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I was with 4 inf and the 25 inf never moved . I am 100% disabled. No purple heart , thanks to Agent orange etc. It all caught up with t later in life. I am definitely a Vietnam vet . 1967-1968 . I Am still kicking it. Like they say you can leave VN but it doesn’t leave you. Glad you are back Shortynnj
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You can’t believe anything from the New York Times. After all they said God is dead right? They are exceptional liars these days. They have been infiltrated with a group of young “never a history class” people.
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Phu Bai 1/20/69 >> 1/20/70. 31m20.
If you got a VSM and VCM medal you are a Viet Nam Veteran. All others are phonies.
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I was in Vietnam 68&69 during Tet when a lot of agent orange was flying around I worked the bottom half of the country 9th infantry div.
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It seems a long time ago I was 9/68 to 7/69 at Dong Tam
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If your DD-214 doesn’t have the word VIETNAM on it as a destination of service, then guess what? You’re not a VIETNAM vet!! It’s an act of “Stolen Valor” when you claim service that never occurred!! Do the rest of us a favor, and stop tailgating on service you consciously avoided……
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a lot of us served during the Vietnam war and did not avoid the Vietnam war. I personally enlisted into the army and just went where they told me as it turned out they sent me to Fort Bliss as a radar technician for Nike Hercules, new missal system, but I did not do anything to avoid Vietnam so slow your role
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Less than 150.000 are alive
i remember talking to a vet w prostate cancer in the 80s complaining the v.a didnt consider it to be service connected.yes its true
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My cousin Bill died last week, cancer. Cousin George was at the funeral, leukemia. Cousin Tom couldn’t make it, Parkisons.
Friend Dennis – prostate cancer.
Friend Bob, has lung cancer. Uncle Larry died 6 years ago, cancer. Friend Zag died 10 years ago, cancer.
No one l know made it out of the bush without getting something.
I have 12 doctors trying to keep me alive and that is just the symptoms passed on genetically from father to son.
I go to one funeral a month.
Let’s not forget the people who served in the Nsa, Cia, etc that were not counted as being there.
They are not eligible for VA benefits. Those people got screwed..
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My cousin Bill died last week, cancer. Cousin George was at the funeral, leukemia. Cousin Tom couldn’t make it, Parkisons.
Friend Dennis – prostate cancer.
Friend Bob, has lung cancer. Uncle Larry died 6 years ago, cancer. Friend Zag died 10 years ago, cancer.
No one l know made it out of the bush without getting something.
I have 12 doctors trying to keep me alive and that is just the symptoms passed on genetically from father to son.
I go to one funeral a month.
Let’s not forget the people who served in the Nsa, Cia, etc that were not counted as being there.
They are not eligible for VA benefits. Those people got screwed..
Uncle Larry was in Cambodia 2 years in the air force, but he could not say what he did, just said he was a supply sergeant.
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Our reunion group lists 358 of which 132 have passed (not counting combat). That’s roughly 2/3 still alive.
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Dear ‘Anonymous”
please ID your reunion group
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Anonymous. Your 358 represents what level group ???
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The 9 million was the total number of people in the military during 64-75 . The now call them Vietnam era veterans.
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They may have served which is good for our country and I thank them for not trying to get of the military. But they are not Vietnam veterans who stepped off the plane with the smell and seeing a helicopter and infantry troops guarding troops coming in from the states.
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The New York Times, as always, gets it wrong. A Vietnam “era” veteran is certainly not a Veteran of the Vietnam War. A veteran of the Vietnam War is a person who PARTICIPATED in the Vietnam War. A Vietnam Era Veteran is everyone who was serving in the military while the Vietnam War was going on. So, when we talk about Vietnam vets who are living or dead, we should be talking STRICTLY about Vets who participated in the Vietnam War.
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Agent Orange was sprayed on the Jungle areas, and Melathion (Insecticide) was sprayed on Base Camps. They used the same aircraft, and there was anything left in the aircraft, whatever the spray for the day was added, so you got both. Melathion was 96% pure. They are paying on Melathion settlements (Watch TV, and it as on 2 to 3% purity, used inside US) There are no living Veterans that I know of. (Operation Ranch Hand) that were loaders and used no protection. This was with conversations with them while waiting our turn to be seen in the VA. The last three I knew had lost a lot of weight, two had each lost a lung. They were smokers. Makes it worse, they were all wheelchair bound. Last one left was about 15 to 20 years ago.
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It is an all-too-common misunderstanding that to be affected by Agent Orange you had to have been sprayed, and/or you are required to prove that to the VA. Whether you were sprayed or not makes no difference, and YOU ARE NOT required to prove anything other than being present in Vietnam. (There are other locations and occupations also, but let’s not muddy the waters in this paragraph.) If you were in Vietnam, you were exposed to Agent Orange, period. If you are diagnosed with a condition that they know is caused by exposure to the chemical, they will presume that condition is service-connected. Please do all you can to inform our fellow vets that the VA presumes Agent Orange exposure if you were in-country. You do not need to establish anything other than that.
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Agent Orange is a Herdicide. You can sleep in it. We were sprayed every 2 weeks with Melithon (Insecticide) that was 96 percent pure. All Lawyer adds is for 2 percent, do you think that this was a greater risk for Cancer. Had several replies over the years that this was not a cause. Nebraska Farm Boy, that had to go to County Agent Classes before buying any chemicals. A lot of guys broke out with rashes every time that sprayed for mosquitos, using Melithon, which was every 2 weeks over all Base Camps. Same aircraft were used and were not cleaned before spraying anything else. What is left of them is in Davis Monthan AFB, Tucson, and they still smell today. Things that they did not tell you.
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There were 7000 Canadians that joined the US military to fight in Vietnam. I am unsure of how many Native peoples joined the US marine corps and volunteered for combat duties.
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I have read about Canadians coming south to fight in Vietnam but have never seen any real authority to support this. I do not doubt that it occurred, but can anyone cite a reliable source for this?
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go to the top of this article and choose the magnifying glass and search for Canadians in Vietnam to read an article on this website about them.
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About 30000 Canadians came into the us to join up. About the same number of draft dodgers.or so I was told.
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I had several Canadians in our Company in Vietnam. I had a Swedish citizen in AIT, with orders to go to Vietnam. He objected, and was assigned as an interpreter attached to the American Embassy in Sweden. The group in my AIT Class were all happy about this.
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Canada did not enter the war so many Canadians joined the americans…They wanted to put a memorial in Ottawa and were refused the built it someplace on the Canadian side I beieve near Detroit…
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The monument is on the Canadian side of the Detroit River (Windsor). Here’s my article about Canadians who fought in Vietnam: https://cherrieswriter.com/2015/11/13/lost-to-history-the-canadians-who-fought-in-vietnam/
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Thank you…..Its been many years sinice I left, needed answers, read the 1987 pulitzer prize book on Vietnam, A Bright Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan, and later Secrets by Daniel Ellsberg a Marine who worked at the pentagon cable room….both left me so shaken I couldn’t finishe either but Ilearned so much.
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Great article! I was in Nam in 1968 and 1969 as a combat Marine. And yes I was sprayed with Agent Orange. I’m now 74.
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I was there in 69-71 also sprayed I’m 74
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inlisted 1968 spent 2 tours in Vietnam I’m now 73
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Comments left by my fellow Vietnam vets are very useful. I have been working with Dr. Mary Lynn Reed, Chair of Math and Statistics at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). She is new to that post, having spent 20+ years as head of coding & analysis at NSA. BTW, Mary’s father was a Marine in Nam and died when she was only a few years old. We are working on a feature article “How Many Of Us Are Still Alive:” that will show a complete Actuarial Model that shows the likely number of us still alive (725,000 to 750,000 out of 2.4 million) and the likely progression of our deaths. Separately I am working on an article that analyzes how many States are “over” or “under” represented in terms of their number of KIAs during and right after the war.”
Dr. Paul Scipione
101st Airborne Division 69-70
retired university professor
Canandaigua, NY
scipione@geneseo.edu
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Yes a Vietnam Veteran, but not a Combat Veteran
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after spending 1968 with 3/25 0f 2nd field forces and 1970 with the 1/12 cav. of the 1st cav div. i know what a combat veteran is. I know from my time with the 3/25 that you don’t need to be a ground pounder to see more then your share of combat.
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If you were shot at, in an incoming rocket attack, had to protect during a ground attack, you could bleed and die, you were in Combat. Been there, seen it, did it. We all served in our assigned duties, some bled, and some died. You were in Combat!!!
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guy next to me was shoot dead I think that counts
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Christmas Night, Midnight, a guy in the next Bunker committed suicide. He got a letter from his wife telling him she was divorcing him and marrying his best friend. We all figured it was a Combat death. War is Heck!!!
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How true. At Dong Tam from 1/69/till I left 7/69 we got motor or rockets almost every night.
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Having served two tours on the ground, as they say, I find it depressing. I find it best not to remember that time.
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I started this post a year ago, it was a simple question. How many vietnam veterans are still living. as far as who is a vietnam vet is simple. If you served in country on a ship in the gulf or dropped 2000 pound bombs you are a vietnam vet. makes no diff, if you were a grunt or cook.
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Gordon, I agree. I am an Era vet, and the closest I got was R&R in Thailand. But serving in any capacity in Vietnam makes that service person a War vet.
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“2500 to 3000 US Air Force troops stationed in Guam, Thailand, and other countries that were involved in the Vietnam War effort. These numbers were not included since these service members were far removed from combat experience and did not spend any amount of time in harm’s way.”
I believe the aircrews flying out of those places were take issue with “not in harm’s way.” In 11 days of December 1973, 16 B-52’s were lost over North Vietnam during Linebacker II. Each BUFF had 6 crewmen onboard. In addition, the US lost two F-111As, three F-4s, two A-7s, two A-6s, one EB-66, one HH-53, and one RA-5C.
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I agree Vietnam vets are fewer. Vietnam era vets are not the same as Vietnam vets, but they are important. It takes military personnel to support the troops on ground or ships in war territory waters. Serving in combat waters. Therefore there are a lot fewer combat veterans from Vietnam. Era vets are important but don’t count
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just an aside…….I was at dinner the other night with my wife and at the next table was an honest Veteran. he was wearing his ‘VIETNAM ERA VETERAN” cover. It only had the National Defense ribbon on the cap.
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Good for him! His wife and family should be very proud of him. We need more honest Veterans. Seems there are a lot of phony ones out there trying to scam the system which takes away from the true Vietnam Vets.
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Very true… One of those is my younger brother. He was drafted and qualified for Helicopter pilot school. So he goes to Camp Wolter Texas for his 11 month school (they pay them E-5 during training) then just few weeks before graduation he declines to sign the extension for his Warrant Officer Status, they send him to Vietnam as a private to Phan Rang to ride security on fuel convoys (safe Gig) he never had to fire a weapon. He now has a 100% disability as unemployable. When he first got out we roomed together, and I came home from school one day s clss was canceled. There he was wearing my dress uniform jacket SSG, CIB, BS three rows of ribbons 8 years’ service, 10 overseas hash marks and he had 3 very underage teeny boppers’ girls smoking weed telling them war stories and bragging about his combat exploits. Needless to say, I set them straight about his lying BS, and moved out the next day.
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Gordon, I agree. I am an Era vet, and the closest I got was R&R in Thailand. But serving in any capacity in Vietnam makes that service person a War vet.
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I don’t like those hats with that saying. Because I am a Vietnam vet.
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I was hoping for more accurate numbers.
What numbers do the VA have? How about disabled numbers?
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You’ll have to look for it, but a long time ago I posted the most recent VA numbers I could find. No one paid any attention to them and this non-controversy continues. It has a life of its own.
But having said that, here are some sources:
https://www.americanwarlibrary.com/personnel/vietvet.htm
https://news.va.gov/89450/vietnam-war-veterans-honoring-served-memorial-day-2021/
These numbers are probably as good as any we’ll ever find and are from 2019 and 2021 respectively. Based on them, and allowing for a couple of intervening years, there appear to be about 600,000 veterans still living who actually set foot in Vietnam or flew in the skies above it.
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So the vets that actually saw combat numbers are swelled by the rear echelon members to 600,000. yet there were millions that signed up or were drafted. Who really cares who “stepped foot on land”. Very devisive infighting among all the service members who served at a time when it was not popular. In my book, they are all Vietnam Vets, just like the guys back home who never went overseas are WWII or WWI veterans…
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You may not care but us guys that stepped foot in Nam AND had bullets flying at us, we care, and we are genuine vietnam Combat Vets. In my Book if you didn’t step foot in Nam Your sure not a Vietnam Vet, Period. Your not a vet if you never stepped foot in another country. Those an in the Era the we were in Vietnam but they are not Vietnam Vets by any stretch of you imagination. It too bad that guys that never fought think for some reason they deserve credit for being in Vietnam when they weren’t. 997 guys died the first day they stepped in Nam. Almost 1500 died their last day.
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I can somewhat understand your position since you experienced actual combat. But the 23 months I spent doing my duty as outlined our government to assure you had a way to be resupplied means I, and those like me, am a Vietnam Veteran. And though did not serve in actual combat, as you describe it, we were shot at & mortared on occasion. I believe we were all there doing our duty and deserve to be called a Vietnam Veteran.
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Thanks for your responses. I meant any one that stepped foot in
Vietnam IS a Vietnam veteran.
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As a child I knew several WWII veterans. Funny, none of them were called WWII Era Veterans.
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Scavenger1, I agree with you. The thing is the question/topic here is not how many Vietnam combat veterans are there, or how many Vietnam Era veterans are there; it’s how many Vietnam veterans are there. Splitting out the numbers of combat and era vets are separate questions. As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t think posing this question was intended to be divisive among veterans, but it has turned out to be. That’s sad and should stop. Regardless of their MOS or the details of their service, veterans have more in common with each other than they have differences, and ALL deserve to be honored.
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U failed to remember the last name on the Wall was in 1975.
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hello,
no disrespect here. question. i was a merchant marine officer, technically a civilian. three years on and off in vietnam . off the ship i went out with airforce on resupply, went out with troops through rubber plantations, ran from gunfire in saigon and chulon. fired on coming up river, a few other things. was i a veteran? you tell me.
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Merchant Marine officers or crew are not wearing the uniform of the USA’s Armed Forces. They are NOT Veterans
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Well, the government 20 or 25 years later sent us, if asked, a ribbon, card, and metal saying we did. Scavenger said you had to be fired on in viet nam to be a veteran. I and other merchant marine did. by your definition, cia personal in civilian clothes were not veterans. i agree with many who feel that a private who served his time in new jersey is not a vietnam vet. and i abhor those who say they served when they were plumbers in texas and talk of medals they never earned. but some men, like myself , were told by their draft board, go to vietnam on your ship.
young men and woman who were there and did get fired on, or were in danger, should be recognized . this exclusiveness does no one any credit.
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The difference David, is that you could quit at any moment, most Veterans who served in Vietnam did not have that choice
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ho, i could not . the draft board made that very clear. in any event, i went as soon as i was contacted by the draft board. i spent three years to and fro, with about 2-3 months in vietnam on every trip. i am not saying i was a hero, but i am saying that i did the job and i did not argue. the merchant marine needed every officer and sailor they could find. i said once if you walked , you worked. and for the most part, we had no weapons. even when i went out with the airforce on resupply to fire bases. i went to dong ha several times. take a look at my article titled ” a pale smoke” google it . it was printed in the ny times and cherries writer.
i appreciate i was not in a company and humped for a year.
what i am saying is that there were all kinds of service, and if you think the definition is being in country and being shot at, then i qualify and so did my shipmates. in ww2 more merchant men were killed than all the services combined until june 6, 1944. and they were civilians. i think the definition should not be restricted by whether you wore khakis or como. we both served and i think that is what distinguishes us from draft dodgers or people that claimed bone spurs or kept getting deferments those are the people i despise. how would you define a clerk typist who stayed in saigon and never went into the field. i was not a supporter of the war but i did my job. no , i could not quit. i served and i was affected like nearly every other person who spent time there. i am not better, but i am not worse. i thank every soldier for their service, i do not exaggerate my actions. nearly every classmate from the academy served on some basis during the vn war. i do not denigrate their service or define them as inferior.
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David, please do not compare this to Merchant Seaman in WWII who braved the many pack’s of Submarines etc as thgatr uis hgow many died in WWIU
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Sorry my spell check went nuts…
David, please do not compare this to Merchant Seaman in WWII who braved the many packs of Submarines etc as that is how so many died in WWII
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no problem with the spell checking. why not compare them?. if you read up on it you will see that ww2 merchant sailors were despised as cowards. i sailed with some in vn at the end of the work lives. to most of them, it was another port and another war. my point is that they were shot at and in country. they did not get metals. in viet nam, because of the unions, they got more money. my larger point is that , in my opinion, they were veterans. they deserve that recognition. and by the way, they never got benefits after their time at sea. a clerk typist got benefits.
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We all served the same, but different. We all bleed red. No two people standing side by side performed the same duties.
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so the cia men who changed from suits were not vietnam veterams when they went into laos and cambodia?
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so if you wore chinos instead of camo you are not a veteran?
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Nov.’62 I got off a PanAm flight at Tan Son Nhut with a US passport, wearing civilian clothes and colorful floral leis around my neck after a stop in Hawaii. A few days later I was in fatigues on a C-123 to Da Nang, and a month later driving Hai Van Pass to Phu Bai with 3rdRRU Mobile Det (ASA).
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If you were in country you are a Vietnam Veteran, NOT a combat Veteran. Those of us who’s job it was “to seek out and destroy the enemy” are combat veterans. It is very simple, there is no ambiguity in that discussion. By claiming to be a Vietnam Veteran you are disrespecting actual Veterans who did serve in country. Mortars fell and did not ask if you were in the infantry, some died who were not combat soldiers, but they were random and not an everyday thing. We are not at war with your opinion, we know that you are wrong. Just look in the mirror and tell that story to the one looking back at you, that person will tell you the truth, not what you want to hear, but the truth
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Yes they served. I no that there were a lot of people got out of the draft some I knew. But being there it is very different then being in Germany in 1968.
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This situation has been an issue for years longer than any of us has been around. My uncle John was in Company A, 290th Engineer Combat Bn during WWII. In January 1945, the Bn was attached to the 3d Infantry Division near the Colmar Pocket, south of The Bulge. His Engineer company was tasked to fight as Infantry, and they did. They lost about 20 men KIA in late January, many captured. When all was done and the Army was cleaning up the details of the action, they decided to award CIBs to the officers and not to enlisted. He was carrying a BAR, killed fighting an infantry action, and the desk jockeys decided he did not meet requirements for a CIB.
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Why all this devisiveness. If you served at all, anywhere, during WWII, you are a WWII vet. If you served anywhere at all, anywherre during WWI, you are a WWI vet. Why do the vets who served during the Vietnam War era have to be so devisive? Damn it, government could have sent anyone serving at any time to Vietnam. Far as I’m concerned, they are all Vietnam Vets and this devisiness should STOP!
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All I know is that Im a Vietnam Combat Vet. That means bullets where flying at me and I killed people in combat. C 3/17 Air Cav. ARP
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Perfect. That makes more sense. Vietnam Vet_combat. I think there about 250,000 Virtnam Vets that saw actual combat. Another 2,000,000 were in country but worked supply or support [based on 10% rule]. So it only makes sense that for those very few of the 9+ million in the service during those years so be able to distinguish themselves.
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That is your opinion and you’re entitled to it, I disagree very strongly. As a “Combat Infantry Veteran” those who allow people to assume that they experienced actual combat because they refer to themselves as a Vietnam Vet. Those of us on the battlefield who bled and many died would take issue with your opinion. As you did not disclose what position you did or did not fill in Vietnam, or did not set foot in Vietnam, I will assume you are not a combat veteran, maybe not a Vietnam Veteran either…
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I’d like to ask a question. After Vietnam I hitchhiked for about 12 years. A few times Id meet a group of guys claiming they were all Nam Vets. When I opened my mouth and started talking about Nam, I’d get this response, “We don’t talk about Nam” .In my opinion we should tell everyone about our combat experience. I began to think that was the excuse for NOT being in combat. Once I was threatened with death if I mentioned NAM again. Why the Shame?
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Everyone that served and was in combat which means they were in the line of fire (received it and returned it in some form or fashion) deal with their dark side in various ways. My demons were better left alone and buried away after two tours back to back. Got home after the war, never spoke about my service, never went hunting again, never cut my feeling back on! It served my pain well as a lifeless, mean spirited dark soul destroying everything in front of me. Finally figured out what was wrong with me, received help but refuse to dwell on the dark demons that quite frankly just did not give a dam for humanity….
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Well again, nothing that you have posted tells the story that you were in Vietnam. I have heard many stories (more in the past 30 years) of people claiming to be a combat veteran, maybe seeking some kind of hero status or valid excuse for why they are where they are. Real combat veterans will share with other combat veterans as their stories have many similarities. Avoiding the specifics & particulars is a sign of fraud or a deeply disturbed relationship to their past. We are not ashamed of our service or the fact we killed and had friends die, far more than we care to remember. The book by Hal Moore & Joe Galloway “We were soldiers once, and young’ describe what many of us experienced. Their is a new book about to be released by Bill Comeau that tells a similar story of the 3rd Brigade of the 4th Infantry “Duel with the Dragon” about the Battle of Soui Tre that I fought in. Veterans support veterans, their stories and we bristle at those who would steal their history, we are not Valor Police, but those who pretend are an insult to those of who struggle with that past. Our Honor and Integrity are important to each of us.
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If they reply that they do not talk about their experiences “They are not Combat Veterans” maybe not even Vietnam Veterans. Combat veterans will share their experiences with other veterans especially combat veterans (CIB)
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The Nation supported WWI & WWII, the entire Nation was involved in the war effort. The Korean War was not supported by the ENTIRE nation, actually that is why it is known as the “Forgotten War”. Vietnam was very different, it was not supported by our Nation, the draft of so many young men to fight in a country that few could ever find on a map, let alone now anything about. The way many of us were treated on returning from that ‘war’, but in truth it was only a war for very few of those who served there. It seems like you are looking at a very narrow view of the division of experiences of those who served in Vietnam. There is a MOUNTAIN of difference in each ‘s experience, ‘combat veterans’, those of us who lived and died in the jungle muck, snippers, booby traps, mortar attacks, and the battles with dozens killed and scores wounded. Those experiences vs the ones of the rear echelons’ are grossly different. I know the difference, do you ?
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The average ww ii vet was in combat 10 to 12 days. the average combat vet in Nam was 240 days.
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Spot on. That is exactly what I was going to post. Granted, most of them were deployed for the duration–a WWII vet I knew was gone 4 years without coming back to the states.
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The real question that started this is “How many Vietnam (in country) veterans are still alive today?” Somehow it devolved into a fight over Vietnam vs Vietnam-Era veterans. Underlying question is what has been the impact of serving in-country have on life expectancy? All else is BS. And the US Government knows this data and is refusing to acknowledge that we are dying at an acerated rate when compared with the general population, which includes Vietnam-Era vets. If they ever admitted what is happening, they would have to compensate us more that the 60-90 percent disability that most of us have received for agent orange and other exposure.
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Thank you, Dave. Very well stated.
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Okay…….I’ll be the one to tell it like it is, even though everyone here, as well as everyone else, knows the truth already! In country Vietnam Vets are the only Vietnam Vets. All the others are Vietnam ERA Vets. If you have any doubts, take a closer look at your DD-214. Everyone knows this…. none more than the ERA Vets. The ERA Vets know perfectly well that they were never…………NEVER………..in Vietnam, and that this is nothing but a desperate attempt to gain the respect those men earned. We haven’t forgotten that time of our lives, and remember full well, that most of these ERA Vets joined these other branches in a desperate attempt to avoid service in Vietnam. We don’t forget, and resent the tail gating by those who, during the war, did all they could to avoid it, and now desperately hope others will conveniently forget this fact, and give them some of the respect they never earned……. Stolen Valor the American Way! I’ve reached the age of truth telling, and have grown sick of pretending, and giving trophies to the undeserving…… I saw good men die, and their loved ones don’t deserve this dishonor any longer. Be content with your service, and leave it there. And, if you think 75% of actual Vietnam Vets (especially after Covid, and more than 50 years of time) are still alive, you’re kidding yourself…
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I’ve never seen so many people so full of shit trying to answer a question like how many Vietnam veterans are still alive today.
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You go, brother! Tell it like it is. Like you I am sick of “ERA” Veterans claiming to be in country. I know full well it takes many, many hands to make the infantry function but like you said–claim your time. I was drafted in May of 1966 specifically for the reactivation of the 9th Infantry…..so B Co., 4/47th/9th Inf. Div., 67-68. 11B20 and proud of it.
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I could never guess the number of actual Vietnam Vets there are, nor the % still alive. However I know many many who have died these past 55 years & 6 months since the Battle of Soui Tre March 21, 1967 and I know what is a combat veteran. I do not like pretenders but do not want to take on the duty of Valor Police. If you are a pretender go stand in front of the mirror and tell that lie one more time so you can watch yourself steal the respect from an actual COMBAT VETERAN A/3/22 3rd Brigade 4th ID Dau Tieng 12/66 to 1/68
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Thank you, Dave. Very well stated!
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I am a Viet Nam combat veteran. I served in the 101st airborne infantry battalion in 1968, the time of the Tet Offensive. My question, “How many guys are I still alive refers to the ones who were in direct combat action?” Of the nearly 3Mil that served, only one in twelve were in fire fights.
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Where is this “one in twelve” figure from? What report or reference confirms it?
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I read a statistic somewhere that one in seven where in actual combat.
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for the sake being more realistic, I served from June 1962 to April 20 1970, and was always told it will vary from 1 in 7 to 1 in 10…. I am not sure how it can be calculated, how to distinguish actual combat veterans, as that reality is a risk factor for contact with an enemy force. If field infantry personal awarded a CIB having engaged the enemy are a ten (10), what are the field artillery units at a fire base like FSB Gold in Operation Junction City. They are a ten (10), they fought alongside the infantry defending the perimeter. Defining Combat Veterans, tell us what number you give yourself, we have a controversy here with a candidate for Governor, he claims now that he is a combat veteran, but he told me in his campaign for the House seat he presently holds, that he was NOT a combat veteran. I asked him to give me his number, he did not put a number on it just that he was Not. Do not consider yourself a 10, unless you are a 10. I am a solid 10
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Last troops departed on 29 March, 1973. Only military remaining were Marines at the Embassy.
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I served in 67 – 69 & had stroke in 93 then heart attack in 2002 with 2d in 2004 . The stroke wasnt assumed until after 2000 & heart not until 2010. I found out from a vet in 2017, filed in 2018. Finally got all the right stuff together; received benefits couple months ago.
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I flew as a crew chief / door gunner from dec 12 th 1965 till dec 15th 1967,I may not have had my boots on the ground out side the wire but we flew close air support , every time you grunts got your ass in a sling we were there to help you, i was on old B model gun ships low and slow ,I was shot down three times, so i dont think your cib means that much to me.
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Thank you for being there to help us when called. We grunts do hold chopper crews in the highest regard!
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I served in Vietnam from Jul 68 to Jul 69. Other than guard duty i was not in combat but the perimeter at Long Binh was regular defoliated and we experienced rocket and mortar attacks. I have had stage III melanoma, stage III squamous cell throat cancer and now stage II bladder cancer. The third cancer was the charm as it was declared “Presumptively caused by Agent Orange ” in 2021. I got the disability benefits at age 79. The list of cancers gets longer with each passing year. I wonder how many vets died of one of the cancers on the list before it made the list?
Mike
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Sorry pal. A Vietnams vet. I pray for the best for you.
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Aloha Mike, the answer is probably many many vets died before they got any benefits. Your own story tells that tale, and how long have you dealt with these cancers. Probably decades, so you get your disability benefits at 79, I hope you live to be 100. I am a combat infantry veteran of Vietnam 12/66 to 7/68
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Anyone who says you guys weren’t there will have to fight me. Our side would have collapsed without you.
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To say that the Air Force in Thailand and Guam was too far away to be in harm’s way shows you have no idea what Navy and Air Force aircrews do. Thousands of sorties departed from Thailand, Guam, and from aircraft carriers at sea to kill MIGS, bomb factories and bridges, and generally create havoc. Check your POW list.
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I’ve seen start dates for the VN “war” as 1954, 1959, 1961, 1964 and 1965. I was ASA, 1960-1963, Ft Dix, Vint Hill Farm, DaNang and PhuBai. I have VSM on my DD215 which deleted the AFEM on my DD214. So, I must be a VN Vet and VN Era Vet and Cold War Era Vet but not a Cold War Vet because I never got anywhere near the USSR.
Ain’t this fun? All opinions graciously welcomed.
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The insistence to include Vietnam-ErA vets with those who served in-country results in a ridiculous skew to any meaningful stats. While I honor those who served worldwide, it comes across as yet another slap in the face to those of us who faced enemy fire. Our service was diminished while there and continues being disrespected by those who lump all Vietnam-Era vets with those whose lives were on the line.
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My squad leaderSteve Cook wrote, “Don’t Cry for Us Saigon.” He gives stats. As a retired Green Beret, his assessment and stats of the war are accurate. I appreciate the fact that I Sam in the combat group that won the war against the communist rabble during their Tet Offensive in 1968. The politicians and fake news along with the Berkeley professors lost it for the American people after that. We have been betrayed by all Globalists.
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I was C 3/17 Air Cav. Hunter killer division. i have read that only one in seven guys that went to Vietnam, were actually in combat. We did a lot of Ranch Hand missions in the iron Triangle. We all started getting heart attacks around the same time. Now Iv had five and 10 % works. I actually vollenteered to go to NAM. Im sorry I did. My government murdered me.
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I think The NY Times has conflated he number of Viet Nam veterans with those who served in the military during the years 1960-1975. The number of Viet Nam veterans, those who served in combat and combat related services (such those “flyboys” from outside the territory/waters of Viet Nam is about 2.7 million. The last number of Viet Nam veterans alive today was 730,000, which would equate to around today’s number of 610,000. The other number of significance is the number of Viet Nam veterans killed by Dow chemical. That number stands around 306,000 killed by agent Orange (and other colors). That is correct, Dow Chemical is responsible for three times as many Viet Nam veteran deaths as the NVA and the VC.
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Had an easy tour given what i was trained for before I got there. Spent a year in training and ended up a buck Sargent airborne ranger. My mos was 11B and the army in its great wisdom sent me to an aviation unit in the Mekong delta. By the time I got to vin long the nva was gone and Charlie was pretty much non existent, he new we had snakes, the closest I got to him was when I was on the perimeter waiting for him to crawl thru the wire. He never did ,Thank god ,because I ended up marrying a beautiful woman and we have the most precious and beautiful daughter. One of the things that really bothers me is the statement that we lost in Vietnam? As an analogy I will use familiar figure of that time. If I got in the ring with Cassius clay later known as Mohamed Ali. And just as the bell rang he got out of the ring , technically I won the fight. But I didn’t beat him he just left. That’s what we did in Vietnam we left and am glad we did. One other thing I would like to know, when Jane Fonda was sitting on that anti aircraft gun in Hanoi did they let her try to use it.
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Your numbers are way off on the number of Air Force personnel serving in Thailand during the Vietnam war. There were 7 RoyalThai Air Force bases used during the war, from 1961-1975, three closed between 1972 to 1973. Each averaged 2500-3000 personnel on a yearly rotating bases, groaning and shrinking based on the missions being conducted. So, nearly 300,000 over the 14 years of their operations, a far cry above the 2500-3000 referenced in the article. Also, some do not consider those who served in Thailand as Vietnam Vets. Well thank God congress got it right putting the definition into law, otherwise those who served there would not be eligible for many VA benefits, particularly Agent Orange claims. Besides, who says anyone can claim this status or that status just because. Air crews who flew over Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam had no Fox hole or ditch yo hid behind while delivering payload after payload to help destroy supplies heading towards those in the bush, while avoid withering anti-aircraft fire and missiles. According to DCAS Vietnam casualty files, the following casualty were sustained outside of S. Vietnam: 728 in Laos, 523 in Cambodia, 1,120 in N. Vietnam and 10 in China. I would hope they are considered “ Vietnam combat Vets.” As well, those who served in Thailand in late 1973-1975 are often looked down upon as not being “real Vietnam Veterans.” We are, as we helped conduct many support missions in the region, helped with draw assist during the fall of Cambodia, S. Vietnam and Laos. Without fanfare or much recognition. Many Vietnam Vets do not even know about the secret operations from Thailand, now declassified, that probably helped save their rears during some of their combat operations. Nor, do they know about what is referred to as the last battle of the Vietnam war, which occurred on 15 May 1975, eight days after the “legally defined” end date of the Vietnam era; 7 May 1975. Educate your self and search the web for the last battle of the Vietnam war. This battle resulted in the loss of 13 Marines (10 in combat, 3 were left behind and executed by the Khmer Rouge, 2 Navy Corpsmen, and 3 Air Force pilots. In addition 18 US AF Security Police personnel and their 5 person aircrew were killed responding to the incident (the seizure of the USS Mayaquez), some do not recognize them as combat related deaths either. Their names are at least on the wall thanks to the efforts of many service organizations and Congress. I know what I did while there in 1975, protecting USAF resources and aiding in the support of many end of the war mission. I salute all Veterans, and those Pencil pusher, clerks, medics, fire-fighters, etc., all had jobs to do to support everyone, they deserve respect as well, as without them no one should have had the tools necessary to accomplish any mission! Later, and Welcome Home to all Vietnam Veterans!!!
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As anti-war vet , all these years later, I respect y’all and your stories.
We did what we felt needed doing.
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I can assure you there will be those of us alive longer than 10 years from now. At 73 years, I plan on beating that date. Aside from that, I have always doubted any “fact” stated by the NY Times; although the federal government is no better.
Sgt. Steve
4-39th, 9th Div. 1968, 69
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I served as a Navy Corpsman, Fall of Saigon. Age 20y 11mo. I’ve often wondered how many of us are left. Good disxussiin.
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Bill,
If my math is correct, are you going on 68 years old ?
Damn…I’ll be 76 in March.
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I think by now we’ve pretty much said all that can be said about this question. Assuming we’re talking solely about U.S. Vietnam veterans, all I would add is that anyone who served in the military and entered the war zone is technically a Vietnam veteran. However, like it or not, the U.S. government makes the final decisions on who is “officially” considered a war veteran… and that’s really the way it HAS to be.
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So I was in the Army National Guard during the Iraq War, So I guess I am An Iraq War Veteran
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If you entered the War Zone, yes!
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No. A veteran. I thank you for your service.
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Somewhat confusing. But having spent a little time thinking about it, I go with the 2m figure. Considering the number of troops deployed at different times, the build up and the draw down, its inconceivable that there could have been 9m serving in country. Also consider the thousands that served multiple tours.
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RE: WHO are Vietnam Vets ?. I would say anyone who has drawn Vietnam Hazard Duty pay, 30 dollars for every month or part of any month, in or over country, should qualify. IF you didn’t get any extra pay … better have a good excuse .like to hear it.
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I recall combat pay (Hazard DutyPay) at $60 dollars a month.
Does anyone else remember ?
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I remember that the minute we came around the coast and headed up for Vung Tau, as merchantmen on American Export LInes ships, we got a sizeable war zone increase in our pay. and i remember that we talked about how much we would make if we lost a finger or an arm. And i can tell you , we made a lot of money.
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I was with the 1st Inf Division from July ’67 to June ’68 and we received $15 overseas pay and $65 combat pay a month.
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Believe it or not, I still have every pay voucher…..and in 1967 Hazard Duty Pay was $65.
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I,m getting older bot I remember combat pay and jump pay were both $55 dollars. serveved in nam 67 to 68 and 69 to 70. both tours in the 1st cav.
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Hazardous duty pay was $65 and overseas pay varied by rank $8 to $ 16. Phu Loi Nov 66 to Dec 67 HHD 11th Cbt Avn Bn
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Bob,
Thank you. Since you were with an aviation Battalion do you remember our flight pay as Army Aircrew ? I flew with the 220th Aviation Company (Cat Killers) in 1968.
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Peter my husband is now deceased but he was a door gunner with the 191 st AHC Bounty Hunters (gunships)
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HDP $60 A MONTH
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RE: WHO are Vietnam Vets ?. I would say anyone who has drawn Vietnam Hazard Duty pay, 30 dollars for every month or part of any month, in or over country, should qualify. IF you didn’t get any extra pay … better have a good excuse .like to hear it.
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Very good. One count should be those Vietnam Veterans who had feet on the ground. And a count of military that flew over Nam bombing etc. And a number of Navy in ships, bombing communist. For the are all Vietnam Vetersns.I was stationed. Mekong Delta US Army 1969
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Not sure what to think about the article. These are numbers never heard before & I would not include those before the “advisers” were sent over in the early/mid ’60s. Some where along the way after returning home & towards, if not after the end of involvement, the number I’d heard/read was 5 million US military served. What that included Im not sure today but understood it to be in naval & in country.
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I’m 71 and waiting to see if I’ll be the last one standing. Active duty 70-71, Quang Tri, Khe Sahn, Danny. What qualifies you as a “viet Nam vet” would be if you stepped foot on the soil.
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I’m going with 2.9 and saying the person who wrote 9.2 has the seing disease whereas they see everything in reverse. I’m still here after all the BS of AO has really messed up my life with illnesses, surgeries ect since 1975, noting problems while I was in Vietnam in 69, and confirmed.
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Lost my Vet to Leukemia just after this count was done….
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Bless you and your family… Those of us who live day to day with that medical time bomb know the pain you suffered before he passed, and the endless pain of loss ever after…
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Alice, my sister lost hers in Oct 2020 from throat cancer due to agent Orange.
Sorry for your loss of your loved one.
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Chester/Gordon,
Excellent questions. Unless they kept track by service or SSN, how many Vietnam Veterans are there ?
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I do not believe that the question of “who is a Vietnam Veteran” is that difficult… Assignment to a unit stationed in country is 1 criterion, another is the number of days assigned and served in country… Combat at sea of pilots from carriers and rescue crews that flew over the country and those downed… I think that there are really 2 classes of Vietnam Veterans, ‘combat and non-combat’ that is a more difficult designation to separate… As a combat platoon Sgt engaged in several large battles and many smaller ‘fire fights’, nights being mortared with shells exploding in the trees above… The VA needs to add one more medical anomaly, “Chronic Butt Pucker” for all combat veterans…
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I to served two tours 67-68 and 69-70,first with 1st of 8th cav. next with 1st of 12th cav. 1st cav div. am i two Vietnam veterans or one.
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I spent 3 separate tours in Vietnam. Do I count as one or three Vietnam Veterans? I was there in 1964-1965 then 1967-1968 then my last tour was 1971-1972. 2 tours I volunteered and my 3rd I re-enlisted. I am a Proud US Army Veteran retired in 1984.
SFC Chester D Carpenter
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I liked it very much this war was up close and personal to me I first thought if the French were there for over twenty years what could we do from the beginning this was a war about money and troops paying the high price in blood I will not name names but Agt Orange was used in Korea they knew how harmful it was I had two personal losses my Navy pilot and my best friend a Marine he came home but never could come to terms with life again
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John, I need to talk to you about this article. I changed emails and can’t reach you!! Please respond! Vince
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I’m here, Vince.
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45-50 years from now (and I bet no-one will want to
remember) there will likely be a debate as to how
many US MILITARY PERSONNELL served in Afghanistan from the start to when the last GI got on the last plane/helicopter out. Today is Sun 22 Aug 2021 but the actual date HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED as the US is SENDING GIs BACK!
Me? I’m 75 and served in South Vietnam (30 Dec 1967-68) A/504th MP Bn. Nha Trang (TET 68),
(Mar 1969-Sep 70) 2/23, 196 LIB & 1/23 MP Co, 11 LIB, AMERICAL DIV. Jul 1971-19 Dec 1971) 29th CA Co, XXIV Corps (Danang). Got the scars to prove it too, both physical and mental.
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GREAT
i TO AM A VEITNAM VET. I WAS IN THE 85TH ORD COMPANY . I PULL GUARD DUTY THE FIRST NIGHT ANY ONE EVERY STAYED THERE. OUR COMPANY STARTED LONG BINH COMPOUND IN SEPT OF 1965
DALLAS WATERFILL EMAIL dallaswaterfill@yahoo.com
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Good article. I go with the 610,000 #
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Was in Vietnam Dec. 1968 to Dec. 1969, Phan Rang AFB, RVN. 35th CBSG, 315th CAMS Working on C-123,s……
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First and most important who is a Vietnam veteran? In WWII and the Korean War, anyone who served in the military was considered a veteran of that war. I submit, we should use the same standard for Vietnam. If you prefer to differentiate who served in country and who did not, then the arithmetic must divide the groups into two lists accordingly. I don’t know why we have to make this simple arithmetic drill so difficult. Just come up with two lists and leave it at that.
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give me a date between June 25, 1968 thru June 25 1969 and I can tell you where I was in country. (52. years later) All with the 3rd Brigade, 82nd Air Borne Division.
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Were you at Saigon firebase when guys set off grenade in APC ?
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Dear Mr. Hutson Jr
When the 3rd Brigade,82 ABD moved from Camp Rodriguez (I Corps) in October 1968 my first base was “Tent City”near Bien Hoa (III Corps) then my unit was moved to Phu Loi. Then later we were transferred to Camp Red Ball.
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i would like to confuse the issue a bit more. I was a merchant marine officer on cargo ships, american export lines, for three years, back and forth to viet nam. we spent sometimes a month or more in one port depending on the cargo and the need. I do not believe we were counted as vets. It took about 30 years for the government to acknowledge we were even there. for myself, being bored sometimes, and anxious to see and do more, i volunteered and went on a number of supply missions to the fire bases. no body turned down extra hands, and my india purchased white shirt and shorts made me attractive target in the event of a problem, and provided some humor to the 130 crews. was i a veteran by the numbers? maybe, maybe not. but i was happy to serve.
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Dave,
I shipped to RVN on the USNS Geiger, manned by Merchant Marines, leaving Tacoma, WA on June 30, 1967 and arriving in Vung Tau on July 21, 1967. The only good thing was 22 days off my tour.
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There was a huge difference between the merchant ships i sailed on, no passengers, and vessels like usns geiger. we had a crew of about 42, spent weeks at anchor in vung tau or da nang. waited and waited for our slot in port. when we carried peaches and beer, no problem. when we carried ordnance we had to accept 50 cal fire from the shore on the way to saigon. one of the ships i sailed on had a captain that was drunk for 5 months. it really did not matter, every officer had a master’s license.
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No reflection on your daily activities, just a friendly piece of information. There was a huge difference between tours of duty also. Don’t know about the MM but everyone got the same combat pay whether a grunt or clerk. Everyone did their assigned job; some just got better assignments. It was what it was.
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Very helpful for this Viet Nam vet, at 73 and a little long in the tooth I I find that my understanding of the time I spent in Viet Nam comes into sharper focus as time goes by and the reality of what happened and what I did to participate makes me proud especially because I volunteered for Viet Nam at the age of 17.
BTW, Why would this conservative believe anything the New York Times says anyway!
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Only believing what Fox & Friends has to say is really what you need to question… Most things in the NYT does get critical peer review and push back when questionable… Fox NOT SO, look at the crap coming out of Tucker Carlson, now that is scary extreme BS
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The picture tells far more than a Thousand Words, it is that thousand yard stare, and any veteran who was out there can fill in the blanks of what they were thinking at that moment… Offshore ocean sailing is a lot like being out trucking thru the jungle “Minutes , hours day upon day of monotony and boredom, interrupted by moments of fright & terror”… I know that thousand yard stare, and many a time since I have found myself back there in my mind, staring at whatever and seeing nothing but what was in my mind
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Interesting and certainly thought-provoking. Certainly leaves some doubt about the numbers because – why are we including the years from 1954 to when the actual American forces entered hostile missions? They don’t include forces in Guam or Thailand. This could be a simple semantics issue, but what about the Air Force guys who flew over Vietnam. If we don’t include forces in Thailand or Guam why are we including anyone except Navy pilots, because I don’t remember any deep water people who were subjected to enemy hostilities. I think it’s just a generalization but should be cleared. We need a better more definitive for VIETNAM Vet.
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Navy ships were classified as Blue Water ships. Some likely in error (or on purpose to avoid Agent Orange Claims).
My sister found enough info to get her husband’s ship re-classified to a Brown Water ship due to his operation of a river boat and also medical evac of Marines, while he was assigned to the flagship, the Newport News
Prior to that any sailor who served aboard the Newport News, that applied for disability connected with Agent Orange, was denied. (How Convenient)
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Hi. My name is Ananda. My son, James, is 16 and has autism. He is absolutely obsessed with military and different men who have served
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The definitive statistics come from the VA’s “Million Vietnam Vets” database, which will continue until we are all gone. I signed up for it in 2018 at the VA Hospital in Buffalo. I understand that they only got about 300,000 of us, but that is a huge, decent number, considering how cynical we Nam vets can be about “studies.” Last I heard the database indicated that the Median Age of Death of Nam vets was reached at least three or four years ago. There were approx. 2.4 million man who served in Nam — approx. 2.8 million tour because some guys just couldn’t get enough! So that means probably from 700,000 to 800,000 of us are still alive. But that number will probably go down by at least 50,000 to 75,000 per year. Due to TCDD among other toxic substances, we are dying off faster than other American men born between 1944-1950. Those were the prime draft years, but of course there were a few older guys over there too.This does not include other American men there who are not covered by the A, like civilian contractors. I KNOW MY STATS BECAUSE I WAS THE LONGEST SERVING MEMBER (20 YRS) on the New Jersey Agent Orange Commission, including four years as Chairman. Our 2003 NJAOC Desk Guide to the unique health issue of Nam vets and our children is still the Gold Standard. I am trying to see if the NJ Adjutant General’s Office still has a couple copies around.
Cheers,
Dr. Paul A. Scipione
101st Airborne Division, 1969-70
Bien Hoa & Phu Bai, two badly polluted areas!
scipione@geneseo.edu
My new Iraq War novel, Three Wise Men should ne out sometime next year
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I was at Camp Eagle, and worked in Production Control. I could type and did all the reports. I was a Pilot, Licensed Aircraft Mechanic and Maintenance Inspector before going into the Army. I also had assisted the FAA in 3 fatal Aircraft accidents. I used this experience and we cut down the Helicopter replacement time from about 2 1/2 weeks to 2 to 4 days. We got a personal visit from 10 Generals (no joke). This included Westmorland and Abrahms. Help train personnel from many different Companies to do the same. My Company was A Co, 5th Trans Bn, 101st Abn. Arne Fuller, Tucson AZ
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Air medals say combat support flying night spook missions around Haiphong from 68 -71. Plane had 4 engines and rarely got shot up although we did have a pilot get a 50 in the leg. Base was 1st MAW Danang AB which got hit early Tet with rockets, mortars and sappers. A few people were killed. After Tet it was quiet. I volunteered for 3 TDY tours – 18 months total. We had it good compared to grunts..tdy pay, flight pay, combat pay plus side gigs. We were near AF ranch hand ops and many of my buds still alive from then have the cancers, diabetes, amputations and such. After 20 some years of filing claims and multiple appeals (DAV advocate,) have given up on the VA. Do I count as a “real” Vietnam vet?
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The Vietnam Nam Veteran and the Vietnam Era Veteran is defined by law ,, am I correct????
Sent from my iPhone
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In the enormity of the cosmos, Vietnam is inconsequential, covered over by day’s dust! But to me, “Nam is my whole universe i.e. nothing exists or will exist in another time. My time stands still. One moment is eternity- the next may never…!”
FEAR Part of the SOP on the Plei Do Lim (PDL) Flash Outpost (OP) was to make a supply run every four days back to the survey section at HHB. This trip always was a concern, because I would be in a vulnerable condition in Indian Country with only two surveyors alone in a ¾ ton jeep. In the first part of the journey the mountain would act as a radio (my lifeline) barrier between Camp Enari and the PDL fortified Ville.
I left this Sunday, as other mornings, to make a supply run and a code book and frequency transfer to Headquarters and Headquarters Battery (HHB); to gather C-Rations, mail, and most importantly to acquire our new radio codes of the confidential frequencies for this period. Systematically, a surveyor from the Plei Do Lim (PDL) flash Out Post (OP) had too physically exchanged the old for the new code-book and radio frequencies for the facility. It was hot that day; the mosquitoes were going through my mind, and the sun was again brilliant. In my mirror I saw its beam illuminate each and every particle of dust that my passing vehicle spewed into the air; thus creating a mobile, magical, camouflaged chamber of brightly dancing fairies shielding me from harm. The dust settled back to normality, as if man did not exist. The jungle sat still except for the dirt road with my truck speeding along. I was thinking that in 10 days I would be on R&R in Taipei, Formosa. I needed the rest! Then upon returning I would be stationed in Camp Enari, away from most of the intense fighting, and protected by the whole 4th. Infantry Division. April 1st was my day to rejoin 4th. Divarty (how ironic), and with my DEROS (Date I returned to the States) in the end of May… boarding ‘The BIG Bird’, flying across the Pond and back to ‘the World!’
I was driving the OP’s 3/4-ton, 4X4 truck down the main dirt highway from Camp Enari entering the Ville and Mark Stanley was a passenger in the cab. I pulled up to the local tailor shop to fix some of my fatigue pants. Then, I stopped at the 5th. Special Force’s orderly room to picked-up they’re new frequencies. All five of the CIDG’s we dropped off that morning filed into the back of the truck, but unlike the cab the back had a canvas top and sides. I left the Ville at 3:00pm. Presently, I approached the road to the top of PDL hill, and I was thinking what a beautiful day this would have been if this were some other place in some other world. This part of Pleiku Province is a combination of mountains, triple to single canopy jungle and/or open valleys.
I turned left into the open valley dirt road that lead to the OP, crossed the blue line (river or stream on a map) and raced through the dense, triple canopy jungle to the open valley floor. For a mile or so the road cut through the jungle like a tunnel; the vegetation brushing against the sides and roof hid what lurked in the shadows. I always felt this was the maximal danger of the trip. Exiting the jungle, still at the foot of the mountain opposite from my defenses; the mountain’s bulk acted as a radio barrier between help from S3 at Enari or the SF’s at the Ville.
“I was searching aria, even though these ruts are a real bitch!” I was jostled and jerked by the truck over the dusty road. Then I down shifted entered the worst section of massive ruts and the broken-up roadbed threw the truck all about its grooves. The wheels were bouncing crazily as the tires encounter deep furrows dug in the hard dirt from the last monsoon. I bounced all around and slowed almost to a stop, and I downshifted and ground to first gear while checking my watch. It was 3:30pm when I entered the slowest aspect of the trip.
BAM! I entered an ‘L shaped’ ambush. The first impact of a rocket was twenty meters to the left and ten meters behind as the rocket flew over its target. ” OH, SHIT- I heard the impact of the Rocket Propelled grenade (RPG) to my left; `this is it,’ I yelled! I stomped the gas and the engine roared- the truck jumped forward and bounced crazily and so did, garbing the steering tightly. As I moved my right hand to change gears, it just blew apart, as red blood and parts of my hand flew everywhere… instantaneously, but in slow motion I seemingly was catapulted onto some parallel universe.
*******************************************************
The commander of the sapper ambush signaled the weapons man to fire the first RPG, and it impacted behind the target. He signaled a repeat, and the second rocket impacted on target. One sapper shot off a whole magazine of armor piercing bullets at the driver’s side windshield of the truck, and glass was flying in all directions. Other sappers were shooting their AK’s at any targets.
**********************************************************
I remember a distorted image of reality. My spirit was above my body and I was looking down at myself bouncing around in the driver’s side. The roar was deafening; through the shattered windshield, I saw the truck go out of control. My body was throne backwards into the seat and rebounded forwards; bent over at a 90-degree angle from my waist. I saw the truck bounce towards the trees. Everything slowed down, and I was alone, above my body that was thrown into the dashboard hitting with my left side. The dashboard gauges and the gearshift lever approached, as I hit the dashboard with my left side and my head crashed to the floor; My spirit rejoined and I was protected by the firewall. My body, accompanied by my mind, was pitched out the right-side door, sliding between the seat and under the dashboard to land on the shoulder of the dirt road alone. I saw the edge of the dirt, the jungle growth, the nearby trees, while I heard the world explode. Mark Stanley was gone. He was shot nine times, while I received the tenth bullet from the ten holes in the windshield.
Suddenly, I was in front of the truck near the grill. To this day, I don’t know how I was transported from the right-side dirt shoulder but ending up in the center of the dusty road. Perhaps, another RPG impacted and careened us sideways knocking me unconscious. I knew that I was gravely wounded, and bullets were kicking up dust clouds as they were landing around my feet. Awakening, I was the only person there, so the enemy was concentrated on me. The truck’s grill was a few feet away… should I crawl underneath or try to hide in the nearby jungle? Waiting for a slight pause in the clamor in my ear, I decided to escape towards the cover of ‘the Bush’. It was difficult for me to move. I raised my left leg and body up and pushed off that knee with my left hand. As I started to slowly stagger upright towards the opposite side of the road, trying with all my might to gain my balance, I went down hard. My left leg hurt like HELLFIRE! An AK found its target in my thigh.
“I will never forget the pop pop pop, pop pop of an AK-47 in rapid-fire, but I heard the far off rattle of a M-60 machine-gun through the roar; Why I thought of PFC Wildaboro and his escapade with the machine gun that OTHER sun-drenched afternoon! I was confused. Could this be friendly fire on a beautiful Sunday? No, Wildaboro was gone, and AK-47s and B-40 rockets were sapper armaments” Later, I read in a letter that Sp.4 Donnon F. Porier grabbed the M-60 machinegun, risking his life, and ran down the hillside rushing to the ambush site. It was a free-fire zone, and a nearby flight of gunships was engaged in shooting up the western valley. Porier was firing from the north, while the three Cobras choppers were engaged the sappers trying to kill me.
Return to reality. Bullets were flying everywhere, and the noise was tremendous. I knew I had to stand up again, even though I made a better target; my staying in the open road would be a death sentence. I managed to stand again, stepped, and hurled myself into the jungle. NO! I struck a tree and rebounded into the open again… still a sitting duck. Pop, POP POP. Pop, POP POP. Straining to regain my feet again, I staggered a few strides to my right and throe myself forward, with all I was worth, collapsing finely into the vegetation face up. Exhausted!
As soon as I was wounded, I was thrown into a world that I was alone! Lying on my back in the underbrush, watching the blue sky, bleeding on the jungle floor alone. I knew I was dying, but I struggled with all my might to stay alive. My whole essence was involved it the quest of one more heartbeat, one more breath, one more gasp of pain averting energy, one moment at a time. Frantically searching to find that ‘one’ resource in my spirit to survive. The NOISE ringing in my ears, the torment, the muggy damn heat, and the distance echo of gunfire ALL STOPPED!
Then there was peace. I was out of my ‘earthly shell’. My performance as Dante’ Michael Anthony Puccetti was at its close, and resembling the theater, I was ready to take my curtain call. Although my time had come, my death brought a realization that, “I WOULD NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO DYE IN THAT JUNGLE.” I discovered a conviction, antithesis to my beliefs, that it was not the North Vietnamese Army that sealed my fate, nor the soldier that touched off the RPG that distorted my body; ‘I had the power from GOD’ to go to the next phase in my journey. Alternatively, to transfigure my destiny.
I knew what my death would mean to my mother, my father, and the rest of my family and friends. It would cause great pain to them; reminiscent of what occurred to the family of my namesake, my first cousin Dante Michael Puccetti. He was a Private First Class who was killed in action in the Second World War. I was the first male born to the Puccetti family after his death, so my parents received permission to name their son after Dante. I wonder if I was not Dante- would I have the inspiration to survive?
“Nevertheless, if my name was Tom, Dick, or Harry I would have perished, but I could not put my parents through the same ordeal as Aunt Palma and Uncle Frank. I opted for love! I knew what life in-store for me in my recovery had- years of pain and disabilities while I waited for my next adventure. I realized what control I had in the cosmos. I had encountered a learning experience, and inspirational contact with the celestial. I WOULD SURVIVE!”
Again, I see a jumbled view of jungle and sky, and vaguely see a solitary soldier standing over me. “A phantom drifted over and raised me up to unconsciousness.” Before I passed out, I was being picked up off the jungle floor by some entity. Through my blood-covered face, “I could not distinguish whom! The fear returned, as I knew he was of small stature. It could be a Yard, Don Porier, or a sapper.” I went into shock and lost conscienceless.
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Quite a story. I’m glad you made it back!
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I am glad that you make Dante, I know the struggle has been long, but the spirit soars and the tale told… Live long my brother
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None of us are very far away from those days… A harrowing experience that can never be diminished by time
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I was there in 1969. I remember reading in the “Stars and Stripes” there were 500,000 plus in Vietnam at the time. I don’t remember the exact number but remember it was over 500,000 in country and the number was the most ever at one time as the article was about Nixon beginning troop withdrawals that would continue until 1975. If you assumed that 500,000 new troops served there every year from 1962-1975, you still couldn’t get to 9,000,000 serving there, so using the peak number is not realistic. A number 1/2 the peak, say 250,000 still seems high but would come closer to 3,000,000 number serving. Some, like myself did not serve a full 12month tour. I was only there 9-months but others served multiple tours, so I tend to believe the 2.7 – 3.0 million is probably an accurate number.
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The disparity seems to be “In Theatre” veterans between the years 1954-1975, and veterans in the Military at that time that were not deployed, or NOT “In Theatre”!
Every veteran has his/her “duty station” recorded on the individual DD214 or 201 personal military forms.
How were WWII veterans & Korean War Veterans accounted for?
I wouldn’t trust the New York Times study, regardless of their “Sources”!
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I think 9+ million total in US military service during the peak years of the Vietnam War and 2.6 – 2.7 million in ‘Nam and its waters and air space is right. But as to how many of us have died since then, I haven’t a clue. But if the 800,000 number is right then it has to be out of the 9,000,000 and not out of the 2.6 million. There are still a lot of us left… by some miracle!
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The debate depends on “only two” numbers.
Number who served “in country” and number who served “DURING” the Vietnam War regardless of where they were deployed.
Fact: Everyone who served “during” the Vietnam War are classified as Vietnam Era Vets.
Just like ALL Vets who served DURING WWII are classified as WWll Vets regardless of where they served.
ONLY Vietnam Vets are separated into two categories.
Some idiot in DC decided to do this.
Past history shows ALL Veterans of previous Wars were classified as Vets of those wars regardless of where they served.
Combat Vets and Non Combat Vets.
I was drafted and sent to Germany 66-68 because of the Vietnam War in the 4Armored Division.
While there troops from our unit were deployed to Vietnam as replacements yet some people don’t consider us as support for troops in Vietnam.
It’s been over 50 years and it’s time Vietnam Vets stop arching among themselves.
We all had a job to do. None of us could have done our job without the support of troops around the globe.
Anyone who served during or because of The Vietnam War IS a Vietnam War Veteran. To not count us is disrespecting us who also answered the call.
Combat Vets “served in country”. Non combat Vets served elsewhere.
They term era should be shit canned.
The term I like to use is “Together We Served”.
Guys like me know the difference.
We don’t respect the combat Vets and they shouldn’t disrespect us.
Where do they thinly get Ella enemy’s came from?
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My mom had all three sons in the war my twin brother and i were drafted he got combat I got artillery the younger one joined the air force . Luck of the draw my twin that received a silver star got the luck of the draw made it home. Just because some idiot politician or people want to say you were not a war vet unless you saw combat don’t feel bad most of those people found ways to evade even getting drafted.
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Les, in IMHO being a Vietnam Veteran has nothing to do with combat. All who served ” In Country” and the those outlying areas in support should be considered Vietnam Vets. If you served in any other places you are a Veteran, ERA is an embellishment of your service. Why can’t you be just a proud Veteran.
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Most likely Les considers those who weren’t in-country as REMF’s.
Even if his job depended on them doing theirs well.
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if you slept in the same bed more than 4 nights a week you were a REMF doesn’t make you a abad guy but you are a remf
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Ah. So Huey pilots and crew were REMFs. I didn’t know that.
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NO, some who got to sleep in the same bed night after night, yet were low slow flying targets by day are NOT REMF…. I do appreciate what they did, from the hero medevac’s to those gun ships who flew into madness to help save our asses knowing that mortar rounds fall from above, RPG’s & macjine gun rounds were in mass supply with the moniker attached “To whom it may concern”…. So do not throw stones at some who got to lay in the same bunk night after night, just because we slept in a dirty hole night after night….
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I was a REMF but was on my 4th pair of boots. I got in about 20 firefights. 15 of us REMFs were surrounded by the 33rd NVA June 13 1970. I went on about 500 missions. I was on the initial invasion into Cambodia, that battle was 15 REMFS against 300 NVA> The next day we went in with the 25th infantry. I only spent one overnighter. I was C 3/17 air cav.
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Rear echelon? Yes. Motherfucker? Hell no. Our med company was on 6 different LZs during the year I was with them, supporting the 3rd Bde 4th ID. We had a dustoff attached to us. We and they generally slept in the same bunks in the same tent if we weren’t up on call during the night. I suppose we were rear echelon, but I dispute anyone calling us REMF.
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Even more telling is how many Vietnam combat veterans are still alive today? Combat Veteran means being awarded a CIB. If one in ten saw sustained combat, then there may be as little as 60,000 of us left! Perhaps the reason for guys is that there were times we had to drink out of bomb craters that were in areas sprayed with Agent Orange. I know… I was there and have several cancers! A Co. 2/8th, First Cavalry, 1968-69. Smokey Platoon.
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Helicopter crewmen did not receive the CIB, but they fought every day. Combat was what we did.
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Most of those who flew had Air Medals which are a combat medal. My husband was awarded several (door gunner w/191st AHC Bounty Hunters)
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“…CIB.” Kenneth, your definition of “combat veteran” is so wrong on so many levels that it would be funny if it did not besmirch the service of so many good men, alive and dead. And your comment about Agent Orange shows that you have no understanding of how the chemical poisoned everyone who set foot in Vietnam.
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Agreed. I served in an artillery unit. We certainly were in close combat often during my tour in 69-70. I don’t have a CIB to show for it, but I most certainly was in combat.
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Tom, to me, the CIB says everything; the wearer is a soldier who has earned the right to it and deserves respect. Has every CIB wearer actually done that? Every grunt I know would say no. But having a CIB does not exclude or diminish in any way the experiences or accomplishments of others, like you, and the wearer of the badge has no right to judge what any other man faced.
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to Ken Drombosky
Those of us who wear “air crew wings” probably saved your ass more than once.
Look up the military definition of “combat”.
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Peter: 67N2F, 119th AHC 68-69. Pleiku, Dak To, An Khe.
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Was an Armored Cav Platoon leader Nov 67-Mar 68 Lost 4 APC”S 4 men in my platoon KIA 12 wounded I think I was in a little combat . But Officers do not get CIB’s But for those Cav troopers who know I have my Spurs
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The 25th Infantry Division, in III Corps, issue two different Malaria Pills. we got one daily the other one weekly.
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The 25th Infantry Division, in III Corps, issue two different Malaria Pills. we got one daily the other one weekly.
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“Combat veteran” means far more than having a CIB. To my understanding, Army aviation units–Assault Companies, Cav Troops, ARA units etc., had the highest casualty rates of any TO & E unit in Vietnam. I flew several hundred sorties in a gunship. I was shot up more than a dozen times and shot down once. I do not, however, have a CIB.
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Apparently “Infantry” is the operative word.
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a few years ago i was flying from rome to possibly germany or holland on the way back to montreal. it was one of the smaller airbus aircraft. ahead of me in the next row was a man conversing with another man about two rows ahead of him. we were all on the same side of the aisle. the man ahead of me had been in rome for a religious tour. he and the other gentleman did not seem to know about each other , but they ended up speaking about the tours in country, both had served some time at dong ha. i do not remember the mos’s but the went on quite a while. for most of it i listened but not wanting to interfere. eventually i commented that i had flown into dong ha on resupply missions , having become bored with my mate’s work on merchant ships that spent long weeks at da nang.
that conversation has stayed with me. i never saw them again, but i knew we had shared something that was filled with pride, sadness, and the passage of time.
all of the participants in this thread are veterans. in one way or another. as we end our lives we should never forget that each served, in some way. it is pointless to debate whether a supply corporal was a veteran. it is much easier to say who was not. if you were effected by the first or second tour, or as i did, three years back and forth , then you were , are are a veteran. it is branded on you.
best to all. stay safe. may we all be the last man standing.
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Anyone suggesting that only a CIB award means you were a combat veteran is very uninformed… The Battle of Soui Tre March 21, 1967 the men of the 2/77 Artillery were every bit infantry as well as Arty that day and many many other FSB battles
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My husband was one of those 191st Assault Helicopter Co. Bounty Hunter door gunners. His combat medal was an Air Medal.
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The definition of Combat Veteran is NOT if you have a CIB…. I have one, but I fought a ferocious battle at FSB Gold at the beginning of Operation Junction II March 21, 1967, the artillery guys in Vietnam were every bit an infantryman as well, they suffered mortar & rocket attacks, enemy probes and attacks… They were lucky in some ways that they did not have to crawl through the shit every day. But the bad news is that Charlie knew exactly where they were . Combat Veterans know who they are, pretenders know that they are not.. I always ask those who claim to be “Compare yourself to the Marines at Fallujah, if they are a 10, what number are you”
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Thanks for your comment! I was on LZ Bayonet during 1970 and experienced many of the things you described. I still consider myself lucky every day!
Dave V. 1st Battalion, 14 th FA, Americal Division, VN, I Corps
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I was also at LZ Bayonet. Arrived in country March 1969, subsequently assigned to B Battery 1/14 Arty. Served most of my time on LZ Professional. Was back at LZ Bayonet the last part of my tour after being medevaced off of Professional and in the hospital at Chu Lai. So yes, we did indeed see combat…often.
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I will have to disagree with the CIB being the only combat veterans… The Battle of Soui Tre 3-21-1967 at Fire Support Base Gold Operation Junction City, the 2/77 Artillery 18 105’s and the 3/22 Infantry A & B Co’s the enemy lost 881 KIA and UNK WIA’s, we lost counting the landing in the 19th 55 KIA & 287 WIA, within an hours Westmorland and other Stars were there claiming this Victory (14 Stars on the battlefield)… The Artillery are every bit combat veterans with the infantry and many other FSB battles as well… I have a CIB and did 22 months in country late including TET…
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I have read that One in Seven that went to Vietnam were in actual combat CIB.
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I was in 1st Battalion 26 th Infantry HMP 1st Infantry Division in 68 November 68 to January 69.
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I would not believe the NYT. They wouldn’t know the truth even if they tripped over it. We who were in Vietnam know who we are and don’t need anyone telling us what they think.
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Question One: Are we talking Vietnam Veterans or “Vietnam Era Veterans”.
Question Two. Forget 1954, let use a true date of 1962 (first advisors)
Next determined those Veterans who were awarded the Vietnam Service ribbon.
When we find that number we can start to determine those of us still standing.
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The first advisors were sent in country much earlier than 1962. The first US advisors that I can find evidence of arrived in country in 1955. In fact, the first two advisors (MAJ Dale Buis and MSG Chester Ovnand) killed by the enemy died in an attack on their base near Bien Hoa on July 8, 1959.
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Lots of people say they served in Nam, but don’t remember their unit, where they were at in country or any buddies or officers names, since I served with D 2/1 196th LIB as a Combat Medic in 1968, I carried a company Roster and had to give each EM a malaria pill each day, I learned everyone’s name, don’t remember them all after 53 yrs but go to reunion when I can.
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John,
I believe you mean the malaria pill was once a week. Our medic gave them out every Monday.
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Depends on where you were. In the highlands we had to take one every day in addition to the once a week pill.
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Learn something new everyday. When we DEROS’ed we were given 6-8 pills to continue taking them every week.
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That was our regimen along the Cambodian border, too.
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Yes, the Monday Monster….
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I served in Quang Tri (70-71) and took two types of Malaria pills. One was daily and the other weekly.
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Me too.
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Served at Quang Tri Combat Base )QTCB) 71-72) Same here.
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Those who do not remember where in country they were, WHERE NOT THERE….. Or suffering from a complete mental memory disorder
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One good way to detect a phony is to ask him what his MOS was. If he was at least in the Army, this might not work. But often, it does. NO REAL VET FAILS TO REMEMBER HIS MOS.
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I always ask if they know what a fuck you lizard was
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There are no foolproof questions. I was at 6 different LZs from Aug ’67-Aug ’68, with a 4th Medical Battalion aid station (D Company), and I never heard of a fuck you lizard.
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Yes, there are fuckyou lizards. I heard them offen. it eas a very loud high pitched, not human and the sound was fuck you. There is a bird in India that says Did you Do it?
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Was in 82nd and served from a firebase up North to near South China Sea down South, remember some names but 53 years
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My cousin was with the 82nd and was there when the TET offensive happened. Do you by chance remember a Jim Blackshear?
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I was all over in 7 years. Most of the time as a grunt without a map. I knew place names like War Zone C, Filijo (rubber Plantation), Iron triangle, Bo Lo woods?, I was wounded on the Laos border near a fire base with the 101st. Not sure where we were. I remember lots of the names Evana, Eagle, Bastone, Granite, Ripcord, Maryanne. With the Americal after I got back I had maps. they sucked. But I guess I knew where I was if we were at a base.
we had a building where the company stored our property. at DaNang If we came in they set up tents to sleep in and had a big blivet bag for a shower. Then we went back to the Boonies. Yep we got briefings then hello’ed into some ridge in who knows where. We just hoped the pilot put us where we were supposed to be. Lol.
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My number one issue is running into a FAKE. As stated in the previous post I too can spot a fake in 10 seconds. I’m sure that you all know that claiming to be a VFWar when you are not is a federal crime with severe legal penalties. It is called the “Stolen Valor Act.”
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Dau Tieng A Co. 3/22 Inf. 3rd Brigade 4th ID attached to the 25th ID 111.40 & 112.40 later these became 11B.40 & 11C.40
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610,000 figure is more accurate., NYT was referring to VN Era Veterans. NOTE: in 2010 Census 13.2 Million claimed to be Vietnam Veterans.
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good stuff !!!!! I arrived in country Dec. 5, 1967…. Served until April 28, 1968 !!!!!! 499 days, and 10 days in Sydney, Australia !!!!! I was a grunt and shotgunner on convoys !!! Got a nice break the last 5 months, got to drive a bird colonel around Chu Lai as he delivered classified info all over the base !!!!! I have done lots of research, read a bunch of historical history, and met and talked to well over 1000 NAM VETS !!!!! I can smell a fake and phony 10 seconds after we meet !!!!! I have spoken at many VETS EVENTS, and done interviews with the media ….. Never get tired of people telling me Thank You for your service, and absolutely love hearing WELCOME HOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dec. 5, 1967 to April 28, 1968 is 144 days
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ooops !!!! I made a mistake !!!!! I served until April 28, 1969 !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Not 499 days between dec 67 & april 68? Mean 69 maybe?
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Various percentages of actual Vietnam Veterans is bothersome. Numbers can always be manipulated.
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On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 4:22 PM CherriesWriter – Vietnam War website wrote:
> pdoggbiker posted: ” This is a controversial post. If we aren’t able to > determine “WHO” is a Vietnam Vet, then how can one determine how many of us > are still alive today? Check out this post and see if you can figure this > out. It was an incredibly tumultuous time in US hi” >
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It poses more confusion about what constitutes a Vietnam Vet!
Combat Vet, Vet on ships that never touched country, military who were passing through and were on airport tarmac?
Should be simple enough but not
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Not all ships are blue water ships. My sister found enough info to get my brother in law’s ship re-classified as a brown water ship and proved he was sent in country by the ship’s commander (Newport News). (1st time to operate a river boat 2nd time to evacuate injured Marines
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I certainly don’t agree on the 9 million in country. The one question I have is how many in country vets did multiple tours over there. I served a second tour and know quite a few Marines that did also. Are we counted as two people or have they accounted for us already.
Using the 2.7 million and assuming one hundred thousand did two tours, I would use the six hundred thousand as the amount still living, due mainly to the delays in Agent Orange treatments and PTSD delays with the sucides from 1970 approx. to 1984 approx.
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yep I wonder also. I did 7 years 66-72 HHC 4/9 Inf and LRRP 25th div, / C 1/327 INF 101st Inf (only 6 mo. wounded evaced) then Am 3/21 196th LIB. 23 Div and finally MACV Tm 87, 43 RCAT 18th ARVN Div. Was I counted each time or once? I appreciate all the support there and around the world but Vietnam area at Fort Whatever Ohio wasn’t Vietnam and no matter how brave the girls in Germany told you you were you were not a Vietnam Vet. I Never got to Korea but I have friends who got a medal for service in Korea. Separate war. I did work with Korean Troops. Tough and crazy. earned their stripe.
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I have always rounded up to 3,000,000 served in Vietnam…..and I read someplace where of that number, only 10% were actually in combat. What do you think?
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TRUE, yes more may have had a mortar or rocket land in the vicinity, or heard a sniper round shot, but the manpower rule is 1 out of 7 – 10 is an actual ‘seek out and engage the enemy, tip of the spear’ veteran…. I served 2 tours late 1966 to late July 1968, TET and the rest as an infantry platoon sgt… Also served in Korea 1963 and considered a Korean war vet as that war has never ended…
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I agree, 10% in combat, sounds right! We had a lot of support vets near Saigon. I was in Vinh Long in 1965, Mekong delta area. 400 hundred days of always being ready to fight and protect our 40 Huey helicopters, flew as door gunner a lot.
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My husband was also a door gunner (191st AHC gunship) but he was there later than you (70-71). From what my son in law says (Apache gunship pilot) they also flew a tremendous number of combat hours everyday, And I know from what few stories he did tell (he’s now deceased) they often had mortar rounds incoming.
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1 in 14 men pulled a trigger in Nam. If you fired a weapon in defense, outside the wire,, and your boots were on the ground in VN you are a COMBAT vet.
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It was all about teamwork, whether you pulled the trigger or not.
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Really, very easy to say if your were able to sleep at night, so being anonymous means you stand up for those words… All members of the team are NOT COMBAT VETERANS
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My husband’s boots weren’t on the ground…they were in the air and he was definitely a Combat vet. Door gunner with the 191st AHC Bounty Hunters
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I’d like to know what the “1 in 14 men” figure is based on. I agree with the rest of your post, and so did the Army.
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Trying to understand: Does being shot at outside the wire while moving to new location count? Does receiving a few mortar rounds inside the wire of our compound count?
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@Dea Kelly–Were you on the ground when this happened? AFAIC, anyone within the bounds of South Vietnam was “on the ground.” In or out of a compound or an LZ or anywhere else. I don’t see how there can be any dispute about this.
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Yep feet never left the ground except to do my mos. RVN. Dec 1967 – Dec 1968 & Jan 1969 – Nov 1969.
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I do not know where that number 1 in 14 came from, but in my time in the Army 1962-1970 it was in the range of 1 in 8 to 10 using the total manpower % . The artillery, Helo crews, combat engineers’, in Vietnam are also considered Combat Vets
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Well, I guess it just did not count for us Huey Teams (Sky Angels) supporting infantry/artillery units by flying in to lay down suppression fire, flying you into hot LZs, taking you out of the boonies, bringing you ammo and supplies, flying the wounded and dead back to base camp, not to mention Huey night Hawk missions to rectify an enemy ambush for our infantry that would be pinned down with no hope of survival. We were sitting ducks to support our artillery & infantry troops, so talk your trash! (Crew Chief 1970-71) 25 AVN 25 INF – (1971-72) C/16 CAV
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Nobody can bad-mouth Huey pilots and crews. I was with 4th Med Bn. You guys were the lifeblood of our war effort. We saved many a guy after you brought him to us from the boonies. I give a silent prayer of thanks for all of you, every time I hear a chopper going by, even now. Welcome home!
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Without a doubt “Helicopter Crews are COMBAT VETS, to fly so low & slow over the most hidden turf below.. On landing at LZ Gold March 19, 1967 we lost 6 Huey’s and 7 pilots
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Even in this age of computers and accountability just goes to show ya ,people still can’t Add or do Math .
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I’m a 1967-68 Vietnam combat veteran. Serving during the TET offensive and time after.
I’m proud to be a surviving vet and the men who served with me then and those after me.
My brother was stationed in the Air Force in 1975 and flew missions over Vietnam.
My brother claims he is a Vietnam veteran. I got angry at him even saying that he was a vet of the war. He showed me his DD214 and low and behold it says he was in Vietnam.
We may never know who actually served and were in country during the fight.
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I concur with the 610,000 as the 850,000 remaining vets have been used for years and would be much lower by now.
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Having spent a year all over Thailand in support of Communist Suppression Operations Center along the Laotian border, and training Thai infantry to deploy in RVN. I saw plenty of people providing direct combat support to the effort in. RVN.
I then did a 12 month tour in RVN in 5th SFG.
I can tell you that those who served in Thailand should definitely be considered Vietnam Vets. Army personnel were awarded VN Service Medals and and Vietnam Campaign Medals. Though Thailand was not designated a combat zone. It was only a short ride.
You would think the services would know how many were assigned to RVN and direct support of RVN, wouldn’t you??
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I agree with the conclusion taken by the Website Admin.
While every GI serving around the world was important to securing our Cold War victory over Communism just as the Vietnam conflict was also, those who served in uniform in the SEA War Theater are the true veterans of the Vietnam War. They wore the Vietnam Service Medal.
All the ‘millions’ of other ‘Vietnam Era Veterans’ are Cold War Veterans. – Bob O’Neal, Lt.Col. USA, (Ret.)
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The article states that The youngest Vietnam Veteran is aged in the late 60’s today. Since the fall of Saigon and Operation Baby Lift occurred in 1975, wouldn’t an 18 year old at that time be 64 or 65 today ?
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If they enlisted or were drafted before 1975, they likely are in their late 60’s now
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drafted in 1966, Vietnam 1967-68 with the 1st infantry Division….now 75!!!!
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Enlisted 7/70. Vietnam 2/72–2/73. Now 69 years/old.
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Likewise, drafted Sep ’66, Vietnam Aug ’67-Aug ’68, and I’m 75.
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The VA sent out a news release on March 29th, 2022, entitled “DISABILITY COMPENSATION AND BENEFITS AVAILABLE TO VIETNAM WAR VETERANS.” It included the following line, which should put this question to rest. “With an estimated 6 million Vietnam Veterans currently living in the U.S. or abroad, VA remains dedicated to serving all Veterans of the Vietnam Era.”
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All troops were sent home in April 1973…. Some advisors embassy guards, but all combat units left
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I was drafted in Sep 1966, went to Vietnam Aug ’67-Aug ’68, and I’m 75 until Oct.
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Please do your own due diligence on the “American War Library” before citing them on ANYTHING, ever. The site is owned and run by a crook and charlatan named (?) Phill Coleman, who surfaced in the very early days of the Internet, and has been profiting from veterans (first Vietnam, now all) for years.
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Interesting, no way is 75 percent f real vets are alive today?
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Enjoyed the post as usual. Thank you!
Phil Landis LinkedIn
Sent from my iPhone
>
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Clearly, the New York Times is referring to Vietnam-era veterans, not Vietnam veterans. Having studied the war for years, I believe that the correct figure for those on the ground in South Vietnam is 2.6 million. To that we can add those who served in adjacent waters and countries, but 2.6 is likely the closest figure to those in country.
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I rode river patrol boats from 1968-9 we were on the rivers but we were there 24hours a day days a week. Just a minor clarification, not all of us were on the ground…Just being picky.
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Did your foot ever touch the ground? Or did you spend 24/7 365 days in the boat? I think I know the answer but like you…just being picky.
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I was on a boat floating up and down rivers for 19 months. We hauled cargo to the bases and for a few months I hauled hitest gas to the airbase at DongHa. We had a 10,000 gal balloon full of gas while we watched for someone shooting at us or placing a bomb on the bottom of our boat. We didn’t make it on shore very often but I still feel I was in VietNam. Does having your ramp down and touching a river bank count as boots on ground while we were not allowed to go off the boat when we were pumping gas to the airbase? There are questions like this that are hard to answere as being true boots on ground.
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You are certainly a Vietnam Vet, and I know the danger that you were in… As an Infantry (CIB) Sgt I spent part of my second tour with the 97th Trans out of Cam Rahn Bay, they operated @28 LCU’s hauling projectiles up those rivers, always a risky business
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I was on merchant ships for three years in viet nam. back and forth to the us, carrying every thing you could imagine. The funny thing,(not so funny) is that when we carried peaches and beer, no problem. as soon as it was ammo or arms, we were machine gunned where ever we went.
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I did a short extra tour with the 97th Trans in Cam Rahn Bay, they had 30 or so LCU’s that hauled artillery projectiles and other stuff including fuel up many of those rivers. Serious danger along those river banks. Another long time friend served on the Riverine Force ‘actually served on John Kerry’s boat’ and is mentioned prominently in his book, told me stories about being ambushed, as those boats made a lot of noise. When you spend most of the time out in the Bad Lands, bad things happen
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Are these all American vets. Or is this a total number of vets with all the other countries that supported us . I know . Let’s ask somebody on Facebook where we can get all the correct true data and facts.
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My 2.6 million figure refers to American vets. I do not know how many others served with us.
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Korea had 2 divisions in Vietnam The White Horse & Tiger Divisions… The Australian Military was also present but I do not know the numbers… There could be others
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