Photo above is of Stanley Kober with RTO, John Scheur. Both served in A 2/18 1st Infantry Division
For some reason, the written word of this article was somehow deleted and lost. Fortunately, it was recorded on Spotify and can be listened to here:
What were the life expectancies of soldiers during the Vietnam War?
CherriesWriter - Vietnam War website 
The life expectancy of an Infantry RTO (radio operator pictured) was approximately 30 seconds after the enemy spotted the antenna of his radio.
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20 seconds longer than the m- 60 man
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Memories that will always be there
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Thank you for both articles: (1)Going up river to port and (2) the flight from Italy back to Nam.
I was in the AF– a Reo in a F4-C
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Who had time to worry about the life
Expenditures for a body in a combat zone? You just do the best job you can and if you got hit, so be it! I did worry about the strength of my flax vest. Staying alive was kinda of important.
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Actually it was called a Flak jacket or vest not flax.
Flax is a plant they use to make linen with.
It was designed to protect your vital organs from shrapnel.
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All the comments and replies are of absolute truth, I was only 18 when I got to Nam ,I’m a country boy from NC so here I am
In a strange country scared shitless .I was a minesweeper.My first time out on a mission they put me on the drag line fifty yards from the road which was route 1, Then all hell broke lose
we were getting it with machine gun and mortars. Here is an 18
year old Marine thinking this is my last day on earth. I’m laying behind a rice paddie dike.I put my whole body as far down in the muck while the bullets we’re over my head. I look over to
my left and saw this rice paddie farmer and his ox and I was trying to motion him to get down he just looks at me and starts
waving then I realized they Weren’t shooting at him only at the
sweep team,then I heard the choppers and they were blowing the hell out in the tree line then it just got so quiet like nothing
never happened,we lost two sweep team members and some
wia’s. As I made it back to the road I remember seeing the
rice farmer who was still working with is ox like nothing ever
happened. My good friend who was a RTO was killed.
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July 68 to July 69. 82nd 2/505th. I would carry when on ambush. Walked point way to many times but never had contact. Found NVA bunker complex.
I too never understood survivor quilt
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Enjoyed your article. Two points: 1) at least in Army units, Medevacs (dust offs) flew unarmed aircraft. If my memory is correct, only the 1st Cab flew wiith doorgunners. 2) by my research, medics suffered 93% casualties with about 33% deaths. If you have other information let me know. Thanks
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I was trained as a RTO in 1970 at Fort Ord then went to Fort Gordon for teletype school, my MOS was 05C20 when I finished. Yes, I made E4 at graduation, that was considered a NCO then. Anyway I was wondering about the RTOs in a grunt platoon, was that their MOS or were they 11B that carried a PRC ? I was a REMF but I’ve heard of 05Cs that were stuck out in the boonies on a firebase.
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I was a grunt with c co. 4/31 196th it inf bade. 11 c mos , meaning I was also cross trained for mortars . I carried the proc 26 radio after I was asked by my field 1st ( E 7 ) if I would for my platoon . As far as I knew that was done in the whole battalion in 1968 . It was more or less ” next ” man up . I remember we were always short of replacements throughout 1968 because of the high Kia & wounded rate we suffered at that time ! It was on the Job Training !
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Ed, I was in a Grunt Platoon in Vietnam 70-71. 1st Platoon, C Company, 2nd Battalion 327th Infantry. 101st Airborne Division. I carried the PRC-25 for most of a year. I was an Artillery Forward Observer 13F20 E-5 at that time. I was never formally trained as an RTO. It was just part of the job. 10 1/2 months in the bush.
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That’s what I figured but didn’t know for sure. I had scary thoughts about myself humping the bush as a RTO, I was a real puny guy back then. I sure feel for all you guys that went outside the wire. Thanks for the reply.
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I was an O5C-20 in Vietnam. Assigned to HHC 1/77 Armor, 1st, BDE 5th Inf. Mech. Our home base was Quang Tri fire Base, But I spent about 6 months out at Mai Loc with the rig.
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If you were a grunt and new in country, you would get the radio to carry because you are a cherry.
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RTO was typically 11Bravo.
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My name is Roger Herforth and I carried the radio for 9-1/2 months with the 101st AB 2/327 “Hawk Recon”. It seemed we walked a thousand clicks during that time in I Corp. I was handed the radio when I went into the field in December of 1969. I voluntarily kept it because I felt I had the entire Military at my beckon call. I had or got no official training nor did any other RTO’s at the time. A few tips from the other RTO and we were off. The sop was,- you carried the radio for 3 months then passed it on to the next FNG.(Friggin new guy). I had the fortunate luck to serve with incredibly smart and brave men, to include losing 4 of them. I am 75 now and I can remember the missions like they were yesterday. God Bless the soldiers, all of them.
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Roger, I was with the 2/327th in 70-71. I was the FO assigned to C co. I carried the PRC-25 for about 10 months. NFS, Welcome Home brother.
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NFS brother.
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GOD BLESS YOU
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Great story!!! I remember hearing somewhere about an RTO who wasn’t getting the info out correctly and the Lieutenant (Kennedy) grabbed the mic and said “My RTO Is Foxtrot Uniform”. An Rto’s job was essential, tough,(Carrying the extra weight of the radio transmitter along with his rucksack), and dangerous. I for one commend you for your courage and thank you for your service to your country.
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Hi, the whole thing is going nicely here and ofcourse every one
is sharing facts, that’s truly good, keep up writing.
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I have a fried Who is killed in Vietnam six months before I got there cause of death was other how would I find out since his parents are long gone
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Do a search for his name n Coffeltdatabase.org
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with your friends information, name, birthday,etc. go to the wall and you will find your friends information there.
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Sir, would you mind me translating this into Spanish and getting it posted in our blog? (tirotactico.net)
Thank you.
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Ernest, I’m glad that your first tour with the VN airborne was rewarding. Both my tours were in the Delta (IV Corps) where the only ground troops were regular ARVN’s and RUFF/PUFFS. They were lazy, cowardly and of questionable loyalty, especially the RUFF/PUFFS, and they would steal your under ware if given half a chance. It was a daily challenge to know who your real enemy was. Often as not he was right beside you with a stolen chicken and a bag of rice.
Be glad you served with a soldier’s soldier like LTC Herbert. Commanders like him were few and far between – many were afraid of their own shadow and were only there to get their “ticket” punched.
Welcome home. And yes, please God, bless America.
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EACH OF US CARRIES OUR OWN MEMORIES– AND THEY RUN THE GAMUT. My first tour was as an advisor to the VN Abn. They were great patriots– fighting for their families and their homeland. They were a great bunch. I am proud to have fought alongside of them. My second tour was as the S3 for LTC Anthony Herbert—one of America’s greatest leaders and WARRIORS OF ALL TIME. We were in2dBn 503d . At this time—- senior Army leadership ordered us all to read the Geneva Convention to our troops— because of the My Lai debachle.
TONY DISAGREED> hE SAID— TAKE A 19 YEAR OLD, WHO HAS JUST TAKEN TWO ROUNDS TO HIS BODY, And IS watching his best friend die from multiple, bleeding wounds– he wont give a shit about the Geneva Convention. Tony told me that either he or I would greet all incoming troops— and we did—- and here is the speech we gave to them. “Soldier,this is a war–don’t forget that, and anytime we are in a fight –we will be toughest SOBs in the fight!! But, once the enemy lays down his weapon, I want YOU TO REMEMBER THREE THINGS: 1, HE IS A SOLDIER, JUST LIKE YOU.2, HE IS AWAY FROM HOME And family, just like you. three, he believes he is doing what his country wants him to do—just like you — So you better damn well treat him with the compassion you want for you!!!We don’t abuse prisoners— Now, if he reaches for his weapon to continue the fight— BLOW HIS ASS AWAY– THIS AIN’T SUNDAY SCHOOL!!!
Now, the wisdom of this “soldier tough” but “humanly compassionate warrior ethos” can be assessed through the 2d Bn record—–NO complaints about mistreatment of prisoners—while achieving the most combat SUCCESSES IN THE BRIGADE. AS LEADERS IN AMERICA’S SERVICES— WE MUST BE PROFICIENT AND READY TO ACCOMPLISH OUR MISSIONS—-
KICK ASS AS NEEDED!!! BUT WE MUST ALSO BE COGNIZANT OF OUR REQUIREMENT TO BE COMPASSIONATE HUMAN BEINGS. aND, mAY GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
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“Bravo, 3/187th Inf, 101st Airborne Div, 2nd Plt, 2nd Sq, Hamburger Hill, May 69.
When Apache Snow began, I was an RTO, after Airborne, and before the CA on Dong Ap Bia, I became the AG for Roeski. I’d had a premonition, and asked the LT to let me trade off to become the AG. When Roeski got hit, I took over the M-60. Quickly learned to control rate of fire. My bud, Price took over as RTO. 15 May he was killed by friendly fire, and a host of us were WIA, myself included.
Great read, thanks for sharing.
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An interesting essay, even more interesting are the comments. I quit trying to make sense of all the numbers that have been generated about Vietnam. The one number that is really important is 56,220 – and we all know what that number represents. Some were constantly exposed to combat, some not so often. I was a helicopter pilot
both tours. I lost my cherry very early. I was shot down on my very first mission in July 1968. I was to have that experience two more times before it was over. I saw aircraft loaded with troops explode in mid-air. Most of us have memories of these kind of experiences. Some unfortunately also came home with physical scars. I was one of the lucky ones – I came home without a physical scratch. I know this is a standard cliche, but it is so true, “All gave some. Some gave all.” Forget the statistics, we all had a job to do, we went where we were told. We can all hold our heads high and be proud of our service. Welcome home brothers and sisters. Welcome home!!
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Just to show that it’s hard to get an accurate number, note my typo of 56,220. That was supposed to be 58, 220. but wait, there are more numbers for the same story. There’s 58,276. According to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund (VVMF) there are now officially 58, 318 names on the wall. Either way, that’s a lot of soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coast guardsmen, male and female that made the ultimate sacrifice for our country, and there are still people dying as a result of their wounds receiver so very long ago in a place called Vietnam. May they rest in peace.
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As I remember it the life expectancy was based on after the ambush was sprung or the fire fight started. 1ST MAW 66-68
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Interesting but something is missing. The fact is that most machine gunners, RTOs, junior officers and other extremely dangerous jobs survived the war. I think what is missing is the fact that the life expectancy of those firing at us was much shorter than those that they were firing at. If there was anything to this life expectancy of a few minutes then myself and many of my friends that are still alive today would be a long time dead.
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The Bronze Star was awarded to ALL that were awarded the CIB in WWII because the Infantry accounted for over 70% of the casualties in WWLL– BUT NOT 70% )F ALL THE INFANTRY !!! In Vietnam — 70% 0f the casualties were Infantry BUT it might be 70% of ALL the Infantry that served in Vietnam. The TOTAL number of CIB and CMB awarded would give you the answer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This is excellent! I knew some of this, but certainly not all. I wasn’t aware that they kept life expectancy statistics. Thanks for posting!
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Also , it I might add that the,” Government big wigs,” have a quota [percentage]of a lot of the Military equipment etc that had a certain amount of time to function until it was disable, blow up, wrecked, junk, etc….
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And us the living that served, who suffer from PTSD ,that figure or percent-aged would be about the greatest of all. S/F
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There were no “door gunners” on dustoffs. I was a medic on one for two yrs and the only weapon I was issue was a six-shot .38
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Was Billeted near an Army medevac Unit and was offered a chance to lay on my stomach with an M16 and door gun for them I decided not a good Idea.
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Back in 1965, I was a door gunner on Medevac recovery operations. It was always quick/quick, load the bodies in and get the hell out. Rules may have changed, I was in the Delta region. We took fire all the time and responded.
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In the 1st Cav medics were right behind the rto making them a very easy find also
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RIght there and the NVA we were usually up against knew this. Point was the safest place to be,they knew to wait for key elements, RTO, Medica, M60 Gunners. Take out the power center, you’ve got the edge. C Co, 1st-12th 66-67.
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Very interesting I carried theM 60 for 5 months that gun would cut down anything. I loved it
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U were best Sarge
Saved a lot of Grunts
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John Fratangelo
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I was an M-60 machine gunner for a battalion recon platoon in 1967, for the First Infantry Division, Known as “The Black Scarf Battalion”. Ambushed on October 4th,1967. Had multiple K’s and W”s. Just published my book “The Last Goodbye” by John Fratangelo, available on line on Barnes and Noble and Amazon Prime Books, Getting great reviews. Your article was quite interesting. Never knew they had life expectancy stats.
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Interesting, I carried a Prick 25, for 2 months. Got hit inside 15 minutes, first ambush we walked up too. We had one RTO killed because he was too close to a 2ND Lt, same thing happened to another RTO. Lt lost a finger, same time. A Co, 1/5 Cav, 1 Cav Division.
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Wow I was 31.8 Gun shot Carried model 1200 Winchester shot gun WIA May 68 Article was great
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I think those numbers are percentages of US KIA, not mortality times. I would suspect that stating with any accuracy the life span of a grunt like me, or any other MOS, would be pretty much pure speculation.
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Excellent information.
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I think the number of Army and Hospital Corpsmen serving with the Marine Corp was very high, with the ratio of the number of them over there. I was over there twice serving as a Hospital Corpsman with a marine unit. Many were killed or wounded !
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I was an RTO for 9-1/2 months for Hawk Recon 2/327 101AB from dec, 1969 to sept 70. We walked the mountains and rice patties all thru Tu Thien Province. In that time 4 us kia and 4 wounded. I kept the radio because I understood the power of having the first communication with the support mechanisms of the military. Helicopters, F4 fighters. Artillery, and ground forces. The rule of thumb was , any new guys would get the radio and keep it until another new guy came in. They were glad to see me as it had been a while for replacements with the unit. It was an HONOR and a privilege to serve with these brave men for my 11 month tour.
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Welcome Home Roger. I was with HHC and 1st Platoon C Company in 70-71. It was an honor indeed to serve with some of the finest soldiers I have ever met. NFS
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I also was 2/327 B company. Sept 69 to Sept 70. Carried the prc25 for about 7 months. I was sitting on the ground one day trying to dry out my gear and better configure my ruck when my squad leader came walking over to me and said, “Gow, you’ve got the radio.” As he turned and walked away! Ha Ha… always enjoyed being a ‘volunteer’!
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NFS
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John Doever
I remember hearing a Lieutenant (Kennedy) say to one of his two platoon RTO’s “My RTO is Foxtrot Uniform”. I applaud your courage as I know an RTO’s job is essential, difficult (carrying the weight of his radio transmitter, his rifle, his ammo, and his rucksack), and dangerous as the enemy surely wanted to knock out any communications for support. Thank You for your courageous service as an RTO with the legendary Hawk Recon Platoon.
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I applaud the courage and difficult and all so dangerous job of Roger Herforth when he served as an RTO for the Hawk Recon Platoon of the 101st airborne division in Vietnam.. Thank You Roger!!! Wortman, another RTO never made it back to ‘The World. Remember he wanted to reenlist for one more year in Vietnam. No combat assignments for another year of service in Vietnam or get out in about a month. Some Brothers said ‘why spend another year in this hellhole???? He decided to stay even though he had a deep feeling he wasn’t going to make it. Well he didn’t make it. He was killed in an ambush along with three others. There were also wounded. Love you Wortman!!!! Roger Loves you too, I’m sure. You were a Great RTO. See you in the next life!!!!! Sorry,I was one of your Brothers in Arms that helped talk you out of enlisting for another year in Vietnam.
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great read !
On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 4:00 PM CherriesWriter – Vietnam War website wrote:
> pdoggbiker posted: ” A friend recently sent me the link to an article > claiming that the life expectancy of a radio operator in the Vietnam War > was only 5 seconds. As I carried a PRC25 radio for over seven-months in the > Nam, I was curious to find out what I did RIGHT to surv” >
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One MOS I figured was a sure short timer was POL{Fuel} Truck Driver. We used to provide cover for these guys. Hats off to them
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Great information. I was a point man, M60 Gunner and squad leader. Thank God I made it. Some of my men didn’t. The one that should be there is the combat medic. They run into the fire to help the wounded and many get wounded or killed.
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Before I became a team leader on ambush and recon I was in command of the scout jeep for the 25th ID resupply convoy from January 1968 to June 15, 1968 and I found the resupply convoys a lot more dangerous because the enemy always knew where it would be and when. I think convoy truck drivers had one of the most dangerous job.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of…
In total, the United States military lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs (3,744 planes, 5,607 helicopters and 578 UAVs). The Republic of Vietnam lost 1,018 aircraft and helicopters from January 1964 to September 1973.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of…
In total, the United States military lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs (3,744 planes, 5,607 helicopters and 578 UAVs). The Republic of Vietnam lost 1,018 aircraft and helicopters from January 1964 to September 1973.
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Though I flew only about 1/2 dozen missions as a Huey door gunner, I was initially told to sit on my flak jacket – I always did so (“personal” protection first).
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I was a cmbt engr – demolition specialist – carried a 45 auto and an M70 grenade launcher in addition to the C-4 and Det Cord. I was told my life expectancy was about 45 sec’s during a fire fight because of the weapons and demo I carried. I was wounded 3 times during the 10 1/2 months I was in-country before being medevac’d out in Apr of 68. I’ve always considered myself damn lucky to make it out alive.
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Good article. An interesting comment I had. I was a 2nd Lt. Infantry platoon Leader. The first thing my platoon sgt. said to me. well I wonder how long your going to last lieutenant? Certainly got my attention.
Needless too say I depended on Sgt. Cruz quite a lot. Learned a lot from him. Lived too tell about it.
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Total bullshit!!
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Over 600 Navy FMF Hospital Corpsmen we’re killed in Vietnam. I had a 20% death rate in my Hospital Corpsman Class. Two of my classmates were killed within 2 weeks incountry and three wounded I know of. Bloody May 1968 Mini TET
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I always found ‘life expectancy’ numbers interesting in that I could never find any supporting information that could be validated. I met a Marine a few years ago who was stationed North of Da Nang. He was wounded and suffered permanent disability shortly before his tour was up. I was stationed on 2 FSBs (8″ & 175mm guns) west of Tay Ninh on the Cambodian boarder in the Ho Chi Minh trail and was wounded but nothing as bad as he was. We were discussing the different units and dangers of each. I always felt that Infantry units were in more danger because of ambush issues and no permanent defensive structures. He said when they were ambushed they took defensive positions, returned fire, called for assistance when needed, and retreated when necessary. I couldn’t disagree. His comparison to a FB was that if we were fired on we returned fire and requested assistance when needed. Not much different than his unit. He then said that they were generally on patrol moving through their area, both attacking and being attacked depending if the VC knew their location. Then he said “you’re on a FB, the enemy always knows your location, can pretty much attack at will, and you really don’t have the capability to retreat. I never thought of it that way before but have many times since. Different type units, different locations, different opinions on dangers. I personally believe and agree with previous posts that when it’s your time, not much you can do.
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I agree with all of the comments, however I would add Tunnel Rats to the group I was one and saw many of my friends die in those tunnels I was very fortunate or very lucky and was never a lead but was at the tail end. of what was usually 5 or 6 going in and many times the leads would find traps, punji pits or the VC waiting.
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Comments were more interesting than the article it self. There must have been a real mathematician to come up with those calculations.
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Interesting reading. Very memorable comments. Me, a vehicle mechanic with Btry E, 41st Arty Quads 1970. Saw from mostly safe distance almost all the weapons systems that where there used. Prayers for all.
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I spent my year in Vietnam with the 1/22nd infantry part of the 4th division. The first six or seven months I walked point for our platoon and led many ambushes and green eye patrols. I was never hit by enemy fire even though they had multiple opportunities after that I was an rto for the company commander and I have to say both jobs were not fun. I credit my longetivity to great training at Ft Benning.
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As a Huey door gunner, when we left the ground on a mission, I always thought that this mission would be my last! Every mission, I had the same thought. Some very close calls but I am alive at age 74.
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I felt the same way jumping off the chopper with my m-60, 300. rounds of ammo,grenades,sandbags and six canteens of water.
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Once while flying as a door gunner, the pilot told me to jump out the Huey to fix one of the radios in the front compartment! We had no place to land and only rice fields so he hovered just about the water and told me to jump. The downwash was terrible just to open the radio door. Water as only about three feet deep, I fixed the radio problem quick and tried to reenter the Huey, the crew chief helped me. Memories!
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Very Good , I was a radio operator up in I corps in 68 & to me the worst thing was the walking . You of course had the radio plus xtra batteries & handsets plus your rucksack with 7 to 8 canteens , 20 mags ( I used to carry 17 rounds in the mags instead of 20 ) because the springs would force the round into the chamber causing jams . then you’d carry an extra 200 rounds of M60 ammo for the machine gunner , plus drag grenades , one smoke grenade plus etc. In your rucksack . That’s why they called us GRUNTS ! I’d love to see the casualties listed by Corps ?
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Spent my year in a Recon platoon 2/35th 4th ID. We ambushed and got ambushed, firebase got attacked who carried what or did what had no bearing. You seen the enemy you shots him and vice versa. That’s my experience.
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It doesn’t make any sense – statistically/mathematically it is impossible.
We’re talking averages, obviously – so, an RTO, with an expectancy of 5 seconds (!) means: 1 gets killed the 1st second, another one after 9 seconds – avg. 5 seconds. As mentioned, who kept track of that in the first place?
Also, it would mean the killed RTO’s died within seconds of the fight (it doesn’t distinguish between ambush or ‘regular fight’, eg. approaching a village and a firefight starts).
Because if only 1 RTO fought for say only 10 or 15 minutes before being killed, that would ‘up’ the AVG – for the total war!
The fact that PDoggbiker can’t find any decent calculation/explanation, tells us a lot.
A much better approach would be/have been: of all the combat-casualties, what was their
1: physical position (in the field / column)
2: role (MOS?)
(and yes, you can’t ask them, so it would have to be derived from the AA-reports and survivors).
Also: for years I have read those ‘life-expectancy’ numbers – never really understanding them, but also noting that they wildly vary.
Anyway, good article for bringing it up.
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My father was on a lrrp team!…65-67…never was shot but killed alot….He never really got over it though …died in 2012!… Death by a Bottle! 😦
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Your Dad and I had the same job. I was lucky too but VN never left me. We killed a lot of the enemy but we took few serious casualties. In the last 5 years the symptoms of PTSD and AO are starting getting worse in me.
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Totally bogus. Four platoons in a rifle company. Five RTOs. That means you lose five RTOs in 5 seconds. Really? Do the math.
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It means, IF (!) a RTO got killed, it happened within 5 seconds – but not that always ALL RTO’s got killed.
See my calculation below in the comments – bogus indeed.
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I served in A Company 3/22 of the 3rd Brigade 4th Infantry 12/66, then Hq Co 2/12 of the 3rd Brigade 25th Inf until the night of the TET offensive end of January 1968 and returned home July 18 1968…. As an infantry platoon Sgt of a platoon made up of all draftee’s my age 21 plus or minus a year… We fought the largest single one day battle of the war March 21, 1967 known as the Battle of Soui Tre, ” fire support base Gold” operation Junction City, that base was commanded by LtCol John Vessey of the 2/77 FA… Vessey was a 25 year veteran of WWII fame with a DSC at Anzio, and on this day he was looking at the end of his career after that tour in Vietnam. This Battle changed his life and his future, had it not been for his actions, every man on this FSB Gold would have died. I assisted Vessey and Capt Cartwright by helping prepare the Bee Hive Rounds (first time they were ever used), firing 4 rounds at proximity ‘0’ range into a human wave attack on or weak side after 5 hours of relentless attacks on the opposite side of the perimeter… Those 4 rounds killed @ 400 enemy soldiers, of the 881 total enemy loss’s… John Vessey later became a 4 Star general and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs appointed by Reagan 1983, and at retirement became Chair of the POW – MIA Commission for 14 years, Passing away in August 2016 just 6 months before our 50th Reunion…. Thank You General Vessey for the almost 53 years I have lived since that day….
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Michael Doolittle…..I was with 1/8 inf, 1st Brigade, and that day, March 22nd was also our darkest day. After every officer in our company was either killed or had serious wounds, our 1st Sgt , David McNerney took over the company and without his leadership, and knowledge of war, and unbelievable courage, our company would probably have been wiped out. As it was, less than 40 did not need evacuation. For his actions, he was awarded the Congressional Medal if Honor. A documentary about our company and our 1st Sgt was made. It is “Honor in the Valley of Tears. We were probably not too far away on that day. The trailer for that video can be seen by googling the title, and it might still be sold on Amazon. If you would like to get a copy, and can’t find it, let me know, and I will make sure you get one.
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Was a door gunner and crew chief for just shy of 18 months (I extended to get out early). I got shot on a mission with 45 days left. So I guess i lasted longer than I was supposed to.
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Different strokes for different folks in war fer’ sure. My 31-months in-country was in three Direct Support US Army aviation units, 15TC BN, First Cav, 335TH, Americal and 17TH Cav 101ST ABD–65-71–In the last battle I was directly involved, LAM SON 719, into Laos, cost army aviation units over 600-helicopters shot down or battle damaged–the NVA were waiting for our “SECRET” mission in early 71–I was glad to go home at battles end, in March 71 , almost unscathed, –I was TDY for my absurd third tour–To the point, many ARVN Rangers, airborne and their other best died in Lam Son 719–US Army Infantry were forbidden entry to Laos in 71.. the ARVN were massacred–and many US Army pilots and crew mambers were KIA & WIA–even MIA…. In my humble opinion–a man–even leaders —should often recalculate their adversaries capabilities and limitations and his own limitations as well—when 10,000 miles from home against a determined worthy foe–in a strange land–The objective of Lam Son 719? To cut the Ho Chi Minh Trail–a week after the mission ended–the trail was booming with business from the north.. Cluster F—, SNAFU and FUBAR fer sur…….
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Really no mention of the regular rifleman. In my tour everyone had the same chance of getting shot. While traveling through the boonies the first few men were usually always shot first. 67-67 11B 4th Id.
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Total fantasy. I was an Infantry Scout Dog handler. My dog and I walked point my whole tour in Vietnam. I saw killed and wounded everywhere in our combat operations. It didn’t matter who you were or where you were. If it was your day to get hit or die, it happened.
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That’s why I never ‘understand’ people talking about ‘survivor’s guilt – ‘it should have been me, why him?’ etc.
It’s just (bad) luck, fate, randomness – there’s no right or wrong, no justice or fairness, no reasoning.
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Hey Robert I was with the 38th Scout Dog Plt
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Re: Helicopter Crews (Medevac & Dustoff): To my knowledge, only the 1st Cav “Medevac” had M60’s for protection. I flew Dustoff and our unit did not have M60’s for protection, nor did any other Dustoff unit that I’m aware of. We observed the rules of the Geneva Convention while the bad guys had no interest in doing so.
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Correct. ‘Ambulances’ are not supposed to be armed (either) – though in training, medics are told they and their vehicles will be a prime target.
I never understood why they didn’t put M60’s on Medevacs (once the VC shot them down) – but then, we now know they never intended to win that war in the first place.
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Our Aussie Dust off choppers had door gunners, we worked on the theory if the Noggies would shot at Red Cross choppers, we would return fire, Aussie grunt, 60000 00 Aussies fought in Vietnam, Up the Old Red Rooster and more beer.
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Dap, Hope this helps. There were two different groups that flew aeromedical evacuations. Non-divisional aeromedical evacuation units went by the callsign “DUSTOFF”. Don’t know why, but generally, their aircraft were not armed (door gunners, etc.). However, it was the discretion of the individual crewmen if they wanted to carry personal weapons or not. The other group of aeromedical evacuation were divisional, i.e. 1st Cav, 101st, etc. They used the callsign “MEDIVAC” and were armed.
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The early days of May 1970, I arrived at the Airport, next to Saigon. That same day, I along with 3/4 others was transported to Long Bhin Post. It was just north of Saigon. The Bn & Company I was assigned to, was on the last row of Bldgs. located on the South End of, the Post. Originally I went to the 543d TC. Appx: 6 months in, all of the 543d TC joined forces with the 572d TC. They were located, next to us, in/on Long Bhin Post. We then took all Trucks and equipment to the Port Of Saigon. Then we all, loaded on C-147 cargo planes. We flew north, then made a stop, in Cam Rahn Bay. From Cam Rahn, we kept flying north to, a Landing Zone near QUANG TRI.
From the Landing Zone, we were carried not too far. To an, open area. No trees or anything on the ground. First thing we did was, Set up a complete circular perimeter. And dug Berms, in the area. They were also in a circular formation. If the enemy was near, we never saw any. Then we learned, appx: 1 mile to our North was, an American AMMO storage area.
As we were, steadily building up, our area for protection.
Our 5th night there, the AMMO area started burning / blowing up. It began just as, it was getting dark. We were all in our Bunkers, and at the ready with our weapons. We were expecting, an attack. The blasts from the AMMO, really lit up the whole area. We were like sitting Ducks. The next morning, the blasting could still be, heard.
Nobody attacked, where we were. We were very, lucky. All of the next day, we could see SMOKE from the fire caused by the explosions of the AMMO at, the AMMO DUMP.
I will always think/say, we had absolutely no reason for being in that place. We all have opinions, this is mine. 10-4
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I spent 10 1/2 months in the jungles of Vietnam. I was an Artillery Forward Observer with the Infantry. I carried the PRC-25 Radio most of that time. I was also told that the Radio did put a target on my back. But it was my job…so I tried not to think about it much. I do remember when I got short I thought about it a lot more. But I made it back in one piece. So I guess I defied the odds.
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I never saw any correlation as to what MOS a soldier was and their survival rate. I handled Top Secret Commo on a daily basis. Units would send a thorough report of their KIA and WIA, battle action coordinates, estimated enemy troop strength, enemy unit KIA/captured and any known direction heading.
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Amen dead is dead
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Like you, I carried a PRC-25 for about 5 months and never got hit. Was I lucky ? Sure but so was everyone else who went 12 months without getting killed or wounded. We had 5 kia’s and roughly 50 wounded in our company so about one in three got hit. All that other stuff about seconds and minutes were story tellers, embellishing things to impress some listeners back home. Welcome Home Brothers !
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Amen I was a machine gunner for 7 months 503rd infantry 173rd airborne and you hit the nail right on the head. LUCK pure LUCK. THE MAN I INHERITED THE GUN FROM WASN’T SO LUCKY. RIP KOOKIE forever young
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My shit was a PRC10. LOL
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Thank god you are still alive, I am age 77. Ron
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Love this analysis. I was a 2LT on Hamburger Hill and had 4 RTO’s over a 7 day period (excluding the times I ended up carrying my own radio). I always was told that the life expectancy of a LT was 14 seconds in INITIAL combat versus 9 seconds for an RTO. The key may be the word initial since we became more savvy with successive combats and had improved survivability.
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The article was interesting. I was one of the “many others” I rode river boats in the Mekong Jan 68 to 69. We did interdictions, blocks and other fun things on the river. A typical Patrol Boat River (PBR) was about 31 feet long and had twin 50’s forward an M 60 midships and a 50 aft. It had a crew of 4 (forward gunner, the coxswain (steering and driving) and the two aft gunners. They also had a 12 gauge, and a M 79 grenade launcher and M 16. We went out typically in two boat patrols one lead one cover . Our patrols were typically about 14 hours 24/7 We operated of old LSTs and large barges. In our spare time we did medevacs and medcaps for the local communities and when required inserted SEALs . It was one of my most memorable tours in the Navy I later went to a carrier and was bored silly because I had about 1% of the responsibilities I had as an O-2
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Lucky you. I packed my own radio and got a Thank you from his Mom. He was not the type to hump a radio.
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Great reading. Gotta say I think you hit it on the nose.
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I DISAGREE–THE ENEMY WOULD SHOOT THE GUY NEXT TO THE ‘RTO’-KNOWING HE WAS THE COMMANDER.
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BS but ia a way you are correct. I was an FO back in the day. I told by RTO that i could carry my own radio, When he agreed he was humping ammo. My shit got weak and a sniper popped three rounds in my young ass. I am 81 now and survived the encounter by terminated the sniper. HOOAH!!! I am one lucky SOB.
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