Photo above from 7/15/66 shows the crash that killed two men from the Fulton/Montgomery County area of upstate New York just west of Albany, SGT Robert R. Telfer (Fonda, NY) and CPL Orsen H. Case (Johnstown, NY). Thanks to Gus Kappler for the info.
One out of every ten Americans who served in Vietnam became a casualty. As a result, 58,169 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.29 million who served. Although the percent of dead is similar to other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300% higher than in World War II. 75,000 Vietnam Veterans are severely disabled.
MEDEVAC helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions, airlifting 900,000 patients (nearly one-half were Americans). The average lapse between being wounded and reaching a hospital was less than one hour, and as a result, less than one percent of those wounded died of their wounds within the first 24 hours.
The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without helicopters, it would have taken three times as many troops to secure the 800 mile border with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the Geneva Conventions of 1954 and the Geneva Accords of 1962 would secure the border).
Army Huey’s totaled 9,713,762 flight hours in Vietnam between October 1966 and the end of American involvement in early 1973. Cobra helicopters totaled 1,110,716 flight hours in Vietnam. This is also the main reason that soldiers in Vietnam saw more action than those soldiers of preceding wars. Large groups of soldiers could be air-lifted into a battle and then be withdrawn after a few hours and flown to another area to reinforce other units or to engage the enemy again in a different portion of the country.
The chart below is not all inclusive but includes most of the helicopter units that served during the Vietnam War. Where it is known, I’ve indicated their unit name / call sign, and a sample of nose art or unit patch for those units. I did post another article on this website a while ago that includes hundreds of photos of nose art used by these crews in-county. I’ll leave a link at the end of this article in the event you want to check it out.
If I’ve erred on the chart below, please let me know so I can make corrections. Also, I invite you to get back to me on any missing units, call signs or duplicates. I am aware that many of the units mentioned herein had multiple call signs and nose art – I’m just limited to the available space I can’t show them all in this format..
CIVILIAN HELICOPTER UNITS
UNIT
UNIT CALL SIGN
Air America
U.S. ARMY HELICOPTER UNITS
Americal Division
Southern Cross
B Co. 123rd Avn. Bn.
Warlords
D Troop 1/1 Cav.
Dragoons
First Cavalry Division
Armed Falcons
1st Brigade – 1st Cav Div (Airmobile)
Flying Circus
1st Aviation Detachment 1st CAV
Guns-A-Go-Go
First Infantry Division
Bulldogs, Rebel Guns, Longhorns, Danger Hawks
1st Infantry Division 1/4th Cav
Quarter Cav
1st Infantry Division A – C Troop 1/4th – Armored Cav Squadron / Troop
Quarterhorse, Darkhorse
1st Infantry Division D Troop 16th Cav
Darkhorse, Mustangs
Fourth Infantry Division Aviation – The Ivy Division
A Company 158th Combat Aviation Battalion 101st Airborne Division
Ghost Riders
B Company 158th Combat Aviation Battalion 101st Airborne Division
Lancers
C Company 158th Combat Aviation Battalion 101st Airborne Division
Phoenix
B Company 159th Combat Aviation Battalion 101st Airborne Division
Varsity
A Company 227th Aviation 1st Cav Div
Chickenman
B Company 227th Aviation 1st Cav Div
The Good Deal Company
C Company 227th AHB 1st Cav 1966-67
Ghost Riders / Snakes
D Company 227th AHB 1st Cav
El Lobo
229th Assault Helicopter Battalion
Winged Assault
A Company 229t AHC
Load Hackers
B Company 229th AHC
Killer Spades
D Company 229th Aviation 1st Cav Div
Smiling Tigers
D Troop 1st Squadron 10th Cav
Shamrock
D Troop 1st Squadron 1st Air Cav 101st Airborne
Dragoons
D Troop (AIR) 1st Squadron 4th Cav 1st Infantry
Darkhorse
D Troop (AIR) 3rd Squadron 4th Cav 25th Inf Div and F Troop (AIR) 4th Cav
Centaurs
D Troop 3/5th Cav
Spooks / Raven / Long Knives
E Troop 82nd Artillery 1st Cav Div
F Trp 8th Combat
Blueghost
HHC 10th Combat Aviation Battalion
Vagabonds
A/377 ARTY 101 ABN
2/20 ARA 1 CAV & F/79 CAV & 4/77 ARA & E82 (All ARA and AFA units)
Blue Max
8th Transportation Company
11th Armored Cav Regiment Aviation
12th Combat Aviation Group
14th Transportation Battalion (AM&S) (GS)
The Reliables
15th Medical Battalion
MEDEVAC
17th Assault Helicopter Company
Kingsman & Lancers
18th Corps Aviation Company (patches & info supplied by Lester Scates)
By mid-1971 most all U.S. military combat forces (including aviation assets) either had or were in the process of departing Vietnam and were transferred their combat responsibilities and equipment to the ARVN forces. This was especially true in the Mekong Delta (IV Corps) where no U.S. ground forces remain. However, there still remained a requirement for ongoing non-combat aviation support to ARVN military units, regional/provincial militia (Ruff-Puffs), MACV advisers, VIP transportation and non-combat classified missions. On 1 June 1971 the 18 th Corps
Aviation Company was formed at Can Tho Army Airfield in IV Corps, Republic of South Vietnam.
When aviation units deactivated, portions of their assets and personnel were transferred to the 18 th CAC. Since the CAC was still evolving, the first couple of months was organized chaos. When the dust settled, aviation wise, the CAC wound up with four flight platoons and one VIP flight detachment. There were 30 UH-1H Hueys divided into two flight platoons of 10 aircraft each, one VIP detachment of
8 Hueys, one commanders aircraft and one maintenance aircraft. The Huey’s callsign was “Green Delta”. The maintenance aircraft callsign was “Short Shaft”.
There was a platoon of 12 OH-58 Kiowas, call sign “Bartenders” and a heavy-lift platoon of 12 CH-47C Chinooks, call sign “Hillclimbers”. There were two maintenance platoons, one for single rotor aircraft (UH-1’s and OH-58’s) and one for the CH-47’s, each with their own hanger and maintenance personnel. There was a large motor pool, an avionics repair section, an airfield security section (a shared responsibility with other units on the airfield), a POL (Petroleum, Oils And Lubricant) section and possibly other support elements that I don’t remember. All
told there were over 500 officers and enlisted assigned to the 18 th CAC. The first commander of this massive organization was Major Douglas Thorpe.
On 6 June 1972 there was a change-of-command. Major Jerry Childers became he new commander and remained until the unit stand-down on 13 March 1973. At 0800 hrs. 28 January 1973 the long-awaited cease fire became effective. Therefore, the war was officially over. However, someone forgot to tell our former enemies, the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) and the local Viet Cong (VC).
At 0945 hrs. a pilot, WO1 Anthony Del Pazzo, from the 18 th CAC, flying a marked Joint Military Command (JMC) UH-1 on approach to Can Tho Army Airfield, was killed when the aircraft was hit by small arms fire. WO1 Pazzo was the last Army pilot killed in Vietnam. On 16 February 1973 a CH-47 from the 18 th CAC, also marked as a JMC aircraft, on a supply mission for the peacekeeping forces had
just delivered building materials to a joint NVA/VC compound near Song Be in Binh Long Province – north-west of Saigon. On departure, at about 300 feet AGL, the
aircraft was strafed by heavy small arms fire, setting the aircraft of fire. The aircraft crash landed in flames. Flight Engineer SP5 James L Scoggins was severely burned in the crash and died 7 days later from complications relating to
his injuries. SP5 Scoggins was the last Army aircrewman to die in Vietnam before the final combat troop withdrawal which occurred on 28 March 1973.
The 18 th Corps Aviation Company was to be short-lived. On 27 February 1973 the 18 th CAC received orders to stand-down and prepare to transfer all assets to the
VNAF. In the final days, some of the personnel were transferred to other units remaining in country and many were rotated back to the states. A skeleton crew
remained to facilitate the transfer. The draw-down was completed on 13 March 1973. All of the assets were left in place: aircraft, motor pool, weapons, tools and shop equipment – everything, including pilot and crew flight helmets. The remaining personnel moved off base to facilities in Can Tho. On 14 March 1973 the VNAF
took over the facility. The colors (unit flag) for the 18 th CAC were folded and transferred to Ft. Bragg, NC.
Green Delta
18th CAC Aircraft Recovery Team
CH-47 Hillclimbers
Green Delta Typical Flight Platoon
UH-1 Maintenance Platoon
UH-1 Flight VIP Platoon
25th Combat Assault Company
Red Carpet
25th Aviation Battalion
Little Bears and Diamondheads
31st Transportation (CH-34) Company and 138th Transportation Detachment
48th Assault Helicopter Company
Bluestars and Jokers
52nd and 119th Camp Holloway
Dragons
52nd Combat Aviation +Battalion
Flying Dragons
57th Assault Helicopter Company
Gladiators and Cougar
57th Medical Company
Dustoff
59th Combat Assault Company
Red Cloud
60th Assault Helicopter Company
Ghost Riders
61st Assault Helicopter Company
Lucky Stars and Star Blazers
62nd Corps Aviation Company
Royal Coachman
62nd Assault Helicopter Company
Outlaws &Mavericks
68th Assault Helicopter Company
Top Tigers, Mustangs & Raiders
71st Assault Helicopter Company
Rattler and Firebirds
82nd Medical Detachment
DUSTOFF
92nd Assault Helicopter Company
Stallions and Sidekicks
101st Airborne Division Association
D Co, 158 Avn Bn (Cobras) Redskins
A Co, 101st Avn Bn (Huey’s) Comancheros
A Btry 377 Arty (Huey and LOH) Gunner
A Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Dragons
B Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Toros
C Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Griffins
326 Med Bn (Huey’s) Eagle Dustoff
1st Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Deadbone
2nd Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Brandy
3rd Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Thunder
163 Avn Co. (LOH and Huey) Roadrunner
A Co, 159th Avn Bn (Chinooks) Pachyderms
C Co., 159th Avn Bn (Chinooks) Playtex
478 Avn Co (Cranes CH-54) Hurricanes
165-HMM (Helicopters, Marine Medium (Squadron)-165)
White Knights
170th Assault Helicopter Company
Bikinis and Buccaneers
173rd Assault Helicopter Company
Robin Hoods and Crossbows
174th Assault Helicopter Company
Dolphins and Sharks
175th Aviation Company
Outlaws & Mavericks
176th Assault Helicopter Company
Minuteman/Muskets
178th Air Support Helicopter Company
The Boxcars
179th Air Support Helicopter Company
Shrimpboats & Hooks
180th Assault Support Helicopter Company
Big Windy
187th Assault Helicopter Company
Crusaders & Rat Pack
188th AHC and C/101
Black Widows and Spiders
189th Assault Helicopter Company
Ghost Riders and Avengers
190th Assault Helicopter Company
Spartans and Gladiators
191st Assault Helicopter Company
Boomerangs and Bounty Hunters
192nd Assault Helicopter Company
Polecats and Tigersharks
195th Assault Helicopter Company
Sky Chief, Ghost Riders, Sky Pilots and Thunder Chickens
196th Assault Helicopter Company
Flippers & Chargers
197th Assault Helicopter Company
Gangbusters & Playboys
199th LIB Aviation Group
Fireball Aviation
200th Assault Support Helicopter Company
201st Aviation Company
Pachyderms
Red Barons
203rd Air Support Helicopter
Wildcats
A Company 203rd ASH
Wildcats
B Company 203rd ASH
Longhorns
C Company 203rd ASH
What more can we do?
205th Assault Helicopter Company
Geronimos
213th Assault Support Helicopter Company
Blackcats
227th Assault Helicopter Battalion 1st CAV
Pouvoir
228th Assault Support Helicopter Battalion
Guns-A-Go-Go, Winged Warrior, Long Horns, Wildcats
235th Air Support Helicopter Company
Delta Devils
237th Medical Detachment (Helicopter Ambulance)
Dustoff
238th Aerial Weapons Company –
Gunrunners
240th Assault Support Helicopter Company
Greyhounds, Maddogs and Kennel Keepers
242nd Assault Support Helicopter Company
Muleskinners
243rd Assault Support Helicopter Company
Freight Train
254th Medical Detachment (HA) DUSTOFF
271st Assault Helicopter Company
“Helen Sue” Crew Chief Ronald Hannon “Donna Sue II” Crew Chief Ronald Hannon “Crystal Ship” Crew Chief Jerry Schneider (Capt. Crystal) “The Rebel” Crew Chief George Roberts “The Iron Butterfly” “Mother Goose” Crew Chief Ben Trickle “Proud Mary” “Ugly Duckling”
Innkeepers & Bartenders
272nd Assault Support Helicopter Company
273rd Heavy Helicopter
Super Hook
281st Assault Helicopter Company
Intruders, Rat Pack, Bandits, Wolf Pack
282nd Assault Helicopter Company
Blackcat & Alleycats
334th Aerial Weapons Company
Sabers, Playboys, Raiders & Dragons
335th Assault Helicopter Company (A/82 in 1965)
Cowboys, Falcons and Caspers
336th Assault Helicopter Company
Warriors and T-Birds
339th Transportation Company (DS)
Always in good hands
355th Heavy Helicopter
Workhorse
361st Aerial Weapons Company
Pink Panthers
362nd Aviation Company – The Last Chinook Unit in Viet Nam
Fly United
478 Heavy Helicopter
Hurricane
498th Medical Company (Air Ambulance)
Dustoff
610th Transportation Company (AM) (GS) 1966-1972
Fast and Sure
A Company 501st Aviation Battalion
Rattlers & Firebirds
USMC VMO-3, HML-367, HMLA-367
Deadlock, Hostage, Cowpoke & The Angry Two
USMC VMO-2
Oakgate, Scarface, Eagle Claw, Cyclone
USMC VMO-6
Klondike
HMM-161
HMM-163
Evil Eyes
HMM-164
Yankee Tango
HMM-165
White Knights
HMM-167
Warriors
HMM-261
Raging Bulls
HMM-262
Old Tigers
HMM-263
The Thunder Eagles
HMM-361
Flying Tigers-
HMM-362 (first USMC helicopter unit in and out of Vietnam)
Ugly Angels
HMM-363
Lucky Red Lions
HMM-364
The Purple Foxes
HMM-365
The Magnificent Flying Circus.
HMA-369
Pistol Pete
HMH-463
Pennant Day, Dimmer, Pineapple
White Hat Airlines
Aircofat
U.S. NAVY HELICOPTER UNITS
HA(L)-3
Seawolves
Helicopter Combat Support Squadron Seven (HC-7)
Seadevils
Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron 6 (HS-6) made WESTAC deployments in 1966 and 1967-8 on the carrier USS Kearsarge and provided Combat Search and Rescue in the Gulf of Tonkin prior to the establishment of Combat Support Squadron 7 (HC-7).
Combat SAR operations
U.S. AIR FORCE HELICOPTER UNITS
Rotor heads
SOUTH VIETNAM HELICOPTER UNITS
VNAF (Viet Nam Air Force) was the air force of the Republic of South Vietnam.
Approximately 12,000 helicopters saw action in Vietnam (All services) and it’s estimated that 40,000 pilots served in the war. Those red figures in the chart below represent the combined total of all other helicopters / crews outside of the Huey category; I was unable to locate individual statistics for each line item for that group. The numbers in the destroyed column are actual numbers which are verified by tail numbers.
It should also be pointed out that 532 American passengers were killed in downed aircraft and are not included in any of the KIA totals.
KIA
KIA
Model
# Served
# Destroyed
Pilots Lost
Crew Lost
All UH-1 Huey Slicks/guns
7,013
3,305
1,074
1,103
All AH-1G Cobras
⇑
272
⇑
⇑
CH-21C Banana
⇑
18
⇑
⇑
CH-3 Jolly Green’s
⇑
14
⇑
⇑
CH-46 / 47 Chinook
⇑
284
⇑
⇑
CH-53 Sea Stallions
⇑
23
⇑
⇑
CH-54 Flying Crane
5000
9
1128
1601
HH-37 Heavy lift transport
⇓
2
⇓
⇓
HH-3 Jolly Green Giant
⇓
21
⇓
⇓
HH-43 Huskie Rescue
⇓
13
⇓
⇓
HH-53 Super Jolly Green
⇓
9
⇓
⇓
OH-13/23 Light Observation
⇓
240
⇓
⇓
OH-6 LOH Scout
⇓
842
⇓
⇓
OH-58A Armed Scout
⇓
45
⇓
⇓
Misc Sioux / Sikorsky SH-3/34
⇓
14
⇓
⇓
Totals
12,013
5,111
2,202
2,704
It’s believed that the Huey and Cobra have more combat flight time than any other aircraft in the history of warfare assuming you count actual hostile fire exposure versus battle area exposure. As an example, heavy bombers during World War II most often flew missions lasting many hours with only 10 to 20 minutes of that time exposed to hostile fire. Helicopters in Vietnam were always exposed to hostile fire even in their base camps.
The following short video offers an animation presentation that shows crash sites during the war on a map of Southeast Asia. It’s interesting to note that only three major areas of the country show heavy concentrations in additions to the many locations in Cambodia and Laos.
The following article was published in the San Diego Union Tribune by John Wilkens on January 8, 2017 about the last pilots to die in Vietnam:
History remembers them as the last two American pilots to die in Vietnam, killed when their Marine Corps helicopter went into the South China Sea during the frantic evacuation of Saigon on April 29, 1975. Their bodies were never recovered
“I’ve thought about it every day for 41 years,” said Steve Wills, who was on the helicopter as crew chief and survived the crash. “I think it would be a healing thing for the whole nation.”
One of the aviators was Capt. William Nystul, who grew up in Coronado. The oldest of four sons, he graduated from Coronado High and San Diego State. He was 29 when he died, married with a young son. His co-pilot, 1st Lt. Michael Shea, from El Paso, Texas, was 25.
YT-14 was on search and rescue duty off the carrier Hancock that day, ready to swoop in if other helicopters crashed and the crews needed to be pulled from the water. It took off at 6 a.m. for what would turn out to be about 17 hours of flying, interrupted a half-dozen times to land on the carrier to refuel.
About 1 p.m., Nystul and Shea came on board to relieve the original pilots. Nystul, who had been teaching at a fixed-wing flight school in Pensacola, was sent back to Vietnam for his second tour after about 20 hours of re-training in the CH-46. Shea, a CH-53 pilot, had about 25 hours of training in the 46 before he was deployed.
Wills, the crew chief and right gunner, and Richard Scott, the mechanic and left gunner, were the other crew members. It was a busy day. They transported refugees from one ship to another. They rescued a Vietnamese man who crashed his small plane in the water.
“We were dodging aircraft left and right,” Wills said in a phone interview from his home in Kalispell, Mont. “The helicopter flew good that day.”
At about 11 p.m., YT-14 was running low on fuel and needed to land on the Hancock. But there wasn’t room. Nystul got waved off twice. Finally cleared to come in, he had to make a hard right turn away from the carrier to avoid being hit by a plane arriving from behind.
“Missed us by less than 100 feet,” Wills said.
He remembers the pilot telling the crew, “Somebody is going to die up here tonight.”
Into the water
Bruce Collison was a medic that night on board the Hancock. Now living in Sarasota, Fla., he recalls being on the flight deck, transfixed by the red, blinking anti-collision light of a helicopter overhead: YT-14.
“It continued circling the length of the ship, running out of fuel, looking for a place to land, losing altitude with every pass,” he said. “I’m convinced that if they had tried to land, with all the other helicopters there, some of them refueling, there would have been a total conflagration and a lot of people would have been killed. So they took it into the water instead.”
Others have surmised that the pilots got disoriented; it was a pitch-black night, no visible moon, impossible to see the horizon. The last thing Wills remembers hearing over his headset was a voice saying: “Pick it up! Pick it up! Pick it up!” Then darkness.
He regained consciousness underwater and made it to the surface. His left leg was fractured and his right hip dislocated. His helmet had been torn off. He fired two pen flares, then activated his rescue strobe. Scott was nearby and turned on his strobe, too.
On the Hancock, Collison remembers seeing the two strobes and thinking, “Great, there are survivors!” Then it dawned on him: “There should be four strobes.”
Another CH-46 lifted off the carrier, and to those on the flight deck, it looked as if it might disappear, too. Its landing lights went under water. Moments later, the engines roared and it lifted into the air and back toward the ship, carrying the engines roared and it lifted into the air and back toward the ship, carrying the two survivors.
The next day, on board the Hancock, they held a traditional burial at sea for the pilots. There were no bodies, so they put mock corpses under the American flags, and slid those into the ocean.
“We were numb like zombies,” Collison said. “We’d spent all day saving people and then we lost two Marines. Nobody wanted to be the last guy to die in Vietnam, and then it happened to two guys that we knew. The whole thing felt surreal.”
It’s part of military lore that no man is left behind, but the evacuation task force had orders to move on. Saigon had fallen to the Viet Cong.
A sobering video showing the aftereffects of helicopter crashes…many after the recovery:
I want to personally thank the 40,000 pilots and crews for being there when called. You are all held in the highest regard by us grunts and others who were in harm’s way. Thank you for your service and Welcome Back to those who made it home. Side note: Every time a Chinook or Blackhawk passes overhead from nearby Selfridge National Guard Base, I still find myself looking into the sky and watching it cross over until it’s gone…and then sometime when I’m outside, I hold my cane in both hands overhead in tribute to those magnificent men in their flying machines – and was then thankful that they didn’t land in my backyard.
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Not sure if you’re still working this, but fwiw… I was in both 201st in 1980s and 377th Med Evac Co , you nailed the 201st callsign “Red Barons,” still used it in the 80s…. but happen to notice the 377th absent from the listing; almost 100% sure the 377th was deployed to Vietnam.
Kudos on a great site and thanks for all the hard work!
I served as Crew chief for Major General George W Putnam jr. First Cavalry Battalion Commander. We had 8 helicopters and 16 crew members. I flew over 600 hours of CA time on 153 missions. Our specialty was inserting LRRPS. We were HHT 1/9. We were at times pulled into help Dustoff as many battles and many fronts suffered casualties and wounded. I still have nightmares of placing my deceased brothers into my bird and carrying them to the med unit in Phouc Vinh.
It would be nice to be listed amongst the troops of helicopter units. SGT Gagnon 1/9 HHT Flight Platoon leader.
Sorry, I do not. I was stationedat Quang Tri, with 1/5 Inf Bde Avn Section from June 1970 thru April 1971. During Lam Som 719 I was at the Red Devil Forward location working in the TOC Bde Avn Sec. My contact to other Avn units was next to nil.
From my August 20, 2017 comment: “I served as a trauma surgeon at the 85th Evac in Phu Bai.
We rededicated (originally dedicated in 1984) our local Vietnam Veterans Memorial to the 37 KIAs from our tri-county area in upstate NY in Sept. 2016. Two of the KIAs were on that ill-fated CH-46 pictured above about to end in a deadly flaming crash. It was Helicopter Alley, Quang Ngai Provence, 7/15/66.
Crew Chief Sgt. Robert R. Telfer, USMC, Fonda, NY
Cpl. Orson H. Case. USMC, Johnstown, NY”
For this and every Memorial Day: Thirty-seven young men (primarily kids) were killed in the Vietnam War from Fulton, Montgomery, and Hamilton Counties in Upstate New York. In 1984 the Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 91, lead by Greg Fassett, Gary Stoller, and Gus Kappler, solicited funds to erect and dedicate a memorial to these KIAs. Fulton Montgomery Community College granted permission to locate it on their campus. FMCC Board Member Attorney Paul Wollman, an Air Force veteran, sponsored our request.
The Memorial is located next to the 911 Memorial. Our Vietnam Memorial was rededicated in September 2016 when the “Traveling Wall” visited FMCC, and the 911 Memorial was dedicated. The daughters of Sergeant Telfer (KIA), Nancy, Joy, Dawn, and Bobbi, worked with Gary Stoller, Gus Kappler, and FMCC representatives to bring the event to fruition.
Gus: Were you at the 85th in early Oct of 68? I passed through there about that time and wonder if you worked on me. It’s a long time ago but was wondering.
It was very enjoyable looking over the list of units and aircraft. On my first tour in 68 I flew OH 23s, OH 6s, and UH 1s. That OH 6 is a fine aircraft to crash in. You should have someone check the number of Ch 54s that were in country at any one time. If it was near 40 at the most I would be greatly surprised. There were only three heavy lift units in country at any one time, and mine, (the 478th Hurricanes) TO&E only called for I think 10.
Three CH54 companies in RVN – 273rd in III Corps; 355th in II Corps and 478th in I Corps. TO&E called for 9 CH-54s tho we had 10 in the 478th when I was there. Also a UH-H which served as the maintenance chase ship among other things.
Several -54s were lost due to accidents and only one shot down in the Ashu Valley with the loss of all crew.
I was there in 67-68 was only six in the 1st can at An Khe. In the fall of 67 three more can in country and was stationed at Vung Tau. I was with the maintenance det. and was part of the recovery team when two was crashed within ten days. One near an Lz in the west near the border and one at an Lz just north of AnKhe.
Where is the USMC’s HMM-265 dragons? They were in Phu Bi in 1969. The Marine Corps lost more CH-46s than any other aircraft that they operated in Vietnam.
The 18th Engineer Brigade had helicopters, callsign “Castle.” They were OH-58’s, but there may have been other types; I do not know. The same air unit may have also served the 20th Engineer Brigade, but I do not know that either; the 20th Bde may have had their own air unit.
Very good article of Americans making sacrifices for others. I entered this site investigating the death of helicopter pilot with the 101st Airborne Aviation Group killed in Vietnam
There is one mistake HMM 161 was not is not known as the Evil Eyes. The Evil Eyes were and are still today HMM 163. Please fix. How do I know this, I served in HMM 163 as a Crew Cheif.
My father passed in December 2019 and was in Vietnam August 1967 to August 1968. He entered with the 4th Infantry Division (Camp Enari), and then moved to the 1st Aviation Brigade, 52nd Combat Aviation Battalion, 170th Assault Helicopter Company as a mechanic/gunner (Camp Holloway). My dad would only tell us (2 daughters and 1 son) that the war changed him.
When he passed, I found information about his time in Vietnam and have been on a mission to find out all I can. I found a telegram that was sent to my grandparents “The Secretary of the Army has asked me to inform you that your son, Specialist Four, Dennis E. Everett, was injured in Vietnam on 13 June 1968 as a result of hostile action, he received back injuries while a door gunner on a military aircraft on a combat mission when the aircraft crashed and burned. He was treated and hospitalized in Vietnam….”
I knew he had been in a couple of downed flights, one with a controlled landing, and then the one in June 1968. When I told my dad’s sisters that I was doing research, they both sent me the letters he had written home to them during his service. One of my aunt’s remembered him telling her about this crash. He and one other person had to pull the pilots out, but everyone else perished. His rifle had been destroyed in the crash so all he had was his pistol. There are more details about how they survived until rescued… but I won’t elaborate. Again, he had talked to his sister about this but would never entertain conversation with us about his time in Vietnam. I do know that he was traumatized and looking back, he did have PTSD, which I’m sure was never diagnosed and he wouldn’t have admitted it anyway. Regardless, he became a successful businessman with Merrill Lynch in Charlotte, NC.
I don’t have any other information about what type of chopper he was on or exactly where they went down. He was with the Flying Dragons/Bikini’s.
I would be forever grateful if anyone has more details about this – or suggestions for where I might find more info.
To all of you, I am so grateful for you all for your service. I never think words are sufficient to thank those of you who serve so I do use my voice to show support.
Two comments, 1 on helicopter units , 1 on book reviews.
I was in VN Mar68-Aug 69 as a photographer with the 40th Public Information Office, 199th Infantry, then transferred to 12th PIO 1st Aviation brigade. The writing on helicopter units and patches was great, but I would also like to see something on the geometric symbols like pentagons, diamonds, etc to identify units who helicopters belong to. I read the book reviews and there are plenty on pilots, grunts, etc. There are non about photographers or other media. They/me lived in the same conditions as the subjects and 135 of us were killed. To say we lived a easy job was not true. Thanks for your work about VN history.
In reading your article AND the comments, it seems that there is still a lot of information about units that need to be told for the next generation in order for them to understand that it “TAKES US ALL” to remain free.
Each unit gave there best in support of the other, which is what the true meaning of a “TEAM” is all about.
Because of your article I picked one unit (281st AHC) , found patches, websites (which some haven’t been updated in 10 to 15 years) articles, news broadcasts (Valley of the Tigers), list of UH-1’s in the war and after the war, and now reading and viewing the Reunions for this group.
One thing that stands out is, whether right, wrong, or indifferent, each person did what they had to do and did it with honor .
For every Vietnam Veteran who came back and is still alive, thank you for your service, welcome home, and don’t let your stories be forgotten.
I wrote a memoir about my time in Vietnam. Go to http://www.guskappler.com to download a free eBook. Lots of blood and guts. I story told to handle my PTS and gathered theemin 2015 into the book. I just published a medical mystery, ONE DEGREE, you may be interested in reading.
the following is an essay I just completed.
I Served Honorably in Vietnam
Now I’m Being Punished
I’m eighty years old and recently diagnosed with Chronic B-Cell Lymphocytic Leukemia (CLL). I am a young, vibrant eighty. I accepted the diagnosis. My blood counts are currently quite good; there is a significant risk of developing an aggressive form of CLL.
I understand that the causation of my CLL was beyond my control. I’m not referring to God, predestination, or family history.
Fifty years after arriving in wartime Vietnam, I am now a victim of Agent Orange. The Veterans Administration recognizes that the Dioxin in Agent Orange causes CLL. This herbicide was manufactured by Monsanto and Dow Chemical, who deceivingly guaranteed its safety when in contact with humans. There was suspicion of a former CEO of Dow falsified research reports proclaiming the herbicide’s safety. See: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Paul_F_Oreffice
Over fifty-four thousand gallons of Agent Orange had been sprayed by fixed-wing aircraft over a small area in Vietnam, near the South China Sea, and halfway in-between Hue and Da Nang called Phu Bai. There is no accounting of the additional amount sprayed by hand and from helicopters, vehicles, and boats.
See: http://cybersarges.tripod.com/AOphotos.html
So what?
Well, the 85th Evacuation Hospital, where I served as a trauma surgeon for a year, ’70-’71, was located there. We drank, made ice cubes, and showered with the contaminated water and inhaled Dioxin in the dust.
So far, I know of at least nine men I served with at the 85th Evac who have suffered from one or more Agent Orange-related diseases. Six of them are dead – colon cancer (denied by the VA), bladder cancer, prostate cancer, Parkinsonism, leukemia, lymphoma, diabetes, ischemic heart disease, basal cell skin cancers, and melanoma. See: https://youtu.be/g8BUnLPQDkw
How did this tragedy evolve?
Early on, our military leaders in Vietnam realized that fighting a guerrilla war against an indigenous enemy was a whole new ballgame. The Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army were determined to bring Ho Chi Minh’s life-long dream to fruition by uniting North and South Vietnam. They also wished to repulse the ill-conceived invasion of their sovereign country by the United States.
The jungle canopy obscured enemy movements. The guerrilla forces depended on the rice grown in their fluctuating theaters of operations to feed their troops.
Killing more than two birds with one stone, i.e., our soldiers, the military brass decided to irradicate the jungle canopy and crops by spraying herbicides. The enemy would be visualized and starved; not so, they moved at night and delivered rice down the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
The US government and military agreed, including presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, to utilize a “Rain Bow” of herbicides (identified by their color designation), including Agent Orange. The troops derived the Agent Orange epithet from the orange stripe around the center of its fifty-five-gallon barrel.
However, there was a significant contraindication to Agent Orange spraying. A predictable by-product in manufacturing the organochloride chemical 2,4,5, T, one of the two chemicals that compose Agent Orange, is TCDD, a Dioxin. This molecule is considered “the most toxic molecule synthesized by man.” Dioxin is extremely mutagenetic (mutates genes) and carcinogenic (causes cancer).
Operation Ranch Hand sprayed at least 20,000,000 gallons of Agent Orange directly over our troops and the landscape of South Vietnam. War planners increased the concentration of the sprayed solution to two parts per million. Five parts per trillion (100,000 times less) causes cancer in laboratory rats. Napalm was added to complete the devastation. It most likely aerosolized the Dioxin to more easily be inhaled.
We did not have a chance!
As Reported by Special Assistant Admiral E.R. Zumwalt, Jr., May 5, 1990 reveals an apathetic approach from the Department of Veteran Affairs.
“Classified” “Not for public release to the general public”
“When we (military scientists) initiated the herbicide program in the 1960s, we were aware of the potential damage due to Dioxin contamination in the herbicide. We were even aware that the ‘military6 formulation had a higher Dioxin concentration that the ‘civilian’ version due to the lower cost and speed of manufacture. However, because the material was to be used on the ‘enemy’, none of us were overly concerned. We never considered a scenario in which our own personnel would become contaminated with the herbicide. And, if we had, we would have expected our own government to give assistance to veterans so contaminated.”
See: http://gulfwarvets.com/ao.html
The definition of naiveté.
Yes, all the US government and military leaders did agree, including presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, to utilize multiple herbicides, including Agent Orange. Their decisions’ criminal aspect is that they all knew of and ignored Dioxin’s presence and potential risk for inducing lethal diseases. The first sinful act.
“Kennedy examined ‘tricks and gadgets’ that might give the South an edge in the jungle, and in November 1961 sanctioned the use of defoliants in a covert operation code-named Ranch Hand, every mission flown signed off by the president himself and managed in Saigon by the secret Committee 202…”
See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/29/usa.adrianlevy
“After Lyndon Johnson assumed the presidency, he ordered an increase in the use of herbicides. In 1968, Dr. Lee DuBridge warned President-elect Nixon about a National Institutes of Health study that showed a connection between the herbicides sprayed across Vietnam and ‘stillbirths and malformations in mice.’ Yet by 1970, 200,000 gallons a month of Agent Orange were being used. “Defense Secretary Melvin Laird considered curtailing the use of such herbicides,” says historian C.B. Currey, “but General Creighton Abrams, commander in Vietnam, and his boss, Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., Commander-in-Chief, Pacific, as well as Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reaffirmed the necessity for its use.”
And!
“During the war, many people understood some of the dangers and protested the use of Agent Orange. Congressman Robert W. Kastenmeier urged discontinuing the use of herbicides in Vietnam, a demand echoed by an editorial in the Washington Post. In 1967, Dr. Arthur W. Galston, often referred to as the man who discovered Dioxin in 1943, joined with other scientists to plead with Washington not to use Agent Orange in Vietnam. The Federation of American Scientists, members of the National Academy of Sciences, 17 Nobel laureates, the Rand Corporation and others urged terminating this form of chemical warfare. In fact, in 1969, United Nations Resolution No. 2603-A declared that the use of chemical agents in a manner used by the US in Vietnam was a violation of the 1925 Geneva Protocol, a war crime. The UN General Assembly passed this resolution by a vote of 80 to 3.” See: http://politicalaffairs.net/killing-me-softly-how-agent-orange-murders-vietnam-s-children/.
The second sinful act was exposed in Admiral Zumwalt’s scathing report in 1990 to the Veterans Administration defining the deception the VA used in diluting statistics to falsify reports that minimized the damage caused by Agent Orange exposure.
See: http://gulfwarvets.com/ao.html
The Vietnam War officially ended in 1975. Our Nation deployed over two million servicemen and women to Vietnam on land and sea. All, to varying degrees, were exposed to Agent Orange and other “Rain Bow” herbicides that contained Dioxin.
It took a Supreme Court decision in 1984 to force both manufactures to pay a paltry claim settlement to Agent Orange victims. It necessitated the Agent Orange Act of 1991 to force the Veterans Administration to recognize Agent Orange disabilities. Until that time, veterans suffered and died from various diseases directly caused by Dioxin. Their children were born with grotesque birth defects. They did not receive the compensation they certainly deserved from an agency representing the country they willingly and honorably served. This evasion of responsibility was a callous decision by our government and its politicians to discard and not help our warriors. Was it done for the nebulous rationalization of the “greater good?”
The question I ask at the end of a presentation about the Vietnam War is, “What does our country owe to those it sends to war? To rehabilitate or discard?”
When engaging these twenty-first century warriors, the Veterans Administration appears to be reincarnating the old playbook they applied to Agent Orange disability. But that is beyond the scope of my message.
Yes, I feel violated, deceived, victimized, cheated, and scared.
I do feel better having ventilated.
I love my country, would not wish to live elsewhere, and would, as most Vietnam Veterans, again serve in Vietnam.
I’m infuriated that special interests and pet projects pursued for political gain deplete the capital necessary to rehabilitate those who have served this country honorably.
Our great Nation should not discard its veterans! Never!
Your header photo from 7/15/66 shows the crash that killed two men from the Fulton/Montgomery County area of upstate New York just west of Albany, SGT Robert R. Telfer (Fonda, NY) and CPL Orsen H. Case (Johnstown, NY). They, along with 35 others from our tri-country area, were honored in 1984 by dedicating our Vietnam Veterans Memorial at the local community college. We re-dedicated it in 2016.
Anyone know a Bob Panzyk? Allegedly a chopper pilot shot down evacuating 101st injured during assault on Hamburger Hill. Also, allegedly a POW at the Hanoi Hilton from then to 1973. Can’t find any record of him.
Sent from Xfinity Connect App D Troop 3rd of the 5th Cav.
When in Vietnam in 68 and 69 we had been under the 9th Division. When the 9th went home we were attached to the 1st Aviation Brigade. Our unit call signs were Lighthorse for our C and C bird, our Scouts were Warwagons, our Slicks were Longknives, and our guns were the Crusaders and our infantry platoon were the Doughboys. Where did the call signs in your listing come from? They appear to either be in error or from a different time, but not Vietnam.
Looking for info on death of close friend and AIT class commander. Spec 4 Fred Oberding Killed around end of October 1972.
18th helicopter company.
Have read so many causes, firearm non hostile,
Helicopter crash. Only consistent is date of death. About same time of one of their chinooks being shot down by shoulder fired heat seeker, killing all on board. Any help would be appreciated.
Wayne, sorry about your friend. I was assigned to the 18th CAC and was the OIC of the recovery of the CH-47 Chinook that was shot down on 31 October 1972 by a Russian made SA-7 missile. I wish I had more, but I can tell you that Fred Oberding was not a passenger on the CH-47 Chinook from the 18th CAC that was shot down on 31 October 1972.
Ch 46 are not chinooks. You missed 11th combat aviation group. 62nd aviation company was part of it. Marble mountain then west gunfighter village DaNang
It seems to me that a great deal of research went into producing this article, which makes me wonder why there is nothing indicating the 247 TH med det. out of Phan Rang.
Many of the Dustoff units had been small detachments. Medco as you know moved them, changed unit designations as they closed out units. .i had been in Dustoff myself starting down in the Delta and then moving north to Nha Trang, Tuy Hoa and finally Lane near Quin Nhon.
Though at lane I did most of my Dustoff work out of Nha Trang. Periodically we used to shuttle one of your pilots back and forth because his wife was in Nam as a missionary. I forget his name. You had billets if I recollect correctly on the east side of Pham Rang. Welcome home.
Enjoyed the article and listings, though saw some errors. D troop 3rd of the 5th in 68, 69 and 70 used the called signs of Lighthorse for Hq and C and C birds, scouts were Warwagons, guns were Crusaders, slicks were Longknives, and our ground platoon had been Doughboys. In the late 70s after flying Dustoff for awhile I moved over to Bravo of the 227th and their callsign had been the potato mashers which became shortened to be just the mashers until I left in late 71.
My father, Jeffrey L Brown, was a Cobra pilot in Vietnam, 1969-1971. Far more decorated than he’d ever let on. I only discovered since his passing 2months ago, just how much. Flew helicopters from age 19 – 66. An aerial ace without a doubt! My hero…
Just researching in hopes of finding out more about him & his “brothers”
, photos, stories, anything.
101st airborne WO3 92D
My brother in law did two tours in Vietnam he brought home a banner that says BILLY BULL DOG ,WITH A PICTURE OF A BULL DOG,he was a door gunner on a Huey, can you give any info on this banner,ty
I served as a trauma surgeon at the 85th Evac in Phu Bai.
We rededicated (originally dedicated in 1984) our local Vietnam Veterans Memorial to the 37 KIAs from our tri-county area in upstate NY in Sept. 2016. Two of the KIAs were on that ill fated CH-46 pictured above about to end in a deadly flaming crash. It was Helicopter Alley, Quang Ngai Provence, 7/15/66.
Crew Chief Sgt. Robert R. Telfer, USMC, Fonda, NY
Cpl. Orsen H. Case. USMC, Johnstown, NY
Please e-mail me so that we may share ideas and information.
I recently self published Welcome Home From Vietnam, Finally, A Vietnam
Trauma Surgeon’s Memoir (Amazon.com) and have been active in veterans affairs since returning home. I now research and discuss preventive measures, PRIOR to discharge, to molify PTS, PTS(D) and suicide.
Another excellent read. Really inducing some goosebumps (& a bit o’ dampness) Pdogg. Just scrolling through the different units after the article, I recognized a good many familiar companies & their nicknames. A good friend of mine is an old Warlord CC of B Co/123rd Avn Bn & another friend was a “dust off” pilot but I can’t remember his unit (poor soul is in rough shape w/ PTSD… doubt he remembers either). Hang tough, Denny!!!
My small hometown area lost 47 young warriors to Nam, among them several rotary aviators. Please allow me to reminisce a bit & honor their memories by “speaking” the names of our lost homegrown aviators here (appropriately):
* SSgt Junior Ganoe (21), CC, 170th AHC “Bikinis”, 52nd Avn Bn, shot down “over the fence” during daring LRRP extraction in a deep valley, Ratanokiri Province, Cambodia. MIA 3/24/70– KIA (Presumptive Finding of Death)1/16/74. Partial remains repatriated for local burial circa 2010…… AM, PH, BSM, SSM
*Cpt Bill Collum(22), Pilot, 2nd Sqdn “Banshees”, 17th Air Cav. Shot down in A Shau during furious
mountaintop Ranger extraction attempt. Door gunners exited just as chopper was hit, before it tumbled down mountainside, flattened & inverted, lodged in trees for many hours w/ pilots pinned inside. KIA 4/23/71, recovered…… AM, PH The other pilot, Cpt Louis Speidel, was severely injured, eventually rescued but died a month later from his injuries…. AM, PH, BSM, DFC
*SP4 Glenn Andreotta(20), CC or DG, 123rd Avn Bn “Warlords”, Americal Div. SP4 Andreotta was CC on the chopper that “intervened” in the My Lai incident. He exited the chopper & waded through a ditch of dead bodies to rescue children. Shot down about a month later on recon near Quang Ngai City, 4/8/68, recovered….. AGCM, ARCOM, AM, PH, BSM w/ V device, Soldier’s Medal.
*(Cousin) CWO3 Tommy Condrey (24), Pilot, 281st AHC “Wolfpack”, 10th Avn Bn. Shot down in A Shau flying fire support during hot LRRP extraction. Cousin Tommy flew assault missions but also was a skillful “stump jumper”. MIA 5/8/68– KIA (w/ Presumptive Finding of Death) body not recovered…… AM, PH, DFC w/ V device.
Rest peacefully with your brothers, our “forever young” hometown warriors……
Thanks, Pdoggbiker
Lot of information. I was the Maintenance Officer for the 358th Avn. Det. in Vung Tau from March of 1971 to Feb. 1972. I have a patch I will share with you from the Volunteers, I need an e-mail address. We had 5 UH-1H Models, one stationed in each Corp., also three Beavers and one U-21 all based out of Vung Tau. We were the air arm for the 525th Military Intel. Group. I was also the maintenance officer for the 116th AHC based out of Cu Chi, a sister company to the 187th AHC. I was there August 1967 to August 1968. I also have some patches I will share with you from the 116th AHC.
Cecil,
I also filled in as a door gunner for about half-a-dozen times when one of the door gunners was sick. Because I was the only intel analyst for our unit (571st MI Det. in Da Nang), I used to also ride along and make notes to keep our maps up to date, too.
I wrote an article for the VHCMA early-last year about it.
Cecil, I was wondering if you may have served with my friend, Fred Follette who served with the 116th AHC from January 1968 thru May 3, 1969 when he was killed in action?
What about those Ghostriders? A Company, 158th Aviation Battalion (Assault Helicopter),
101st Airborne Division (Airmobile).
I did not serve but have been involved in two reunions with these gents. Bad Boys, Great Souls. Thanks to all . . .
Hi John,
You continue to amaze me with the depth of research and information gathering you are willing to do. With men like you, the awareness and the honor of those that served will never be forgotten. As I told you the first time I found your site, it is easy to get lost on your site and not appear until weeks later.
BTW, I read your second book and enjoyed it. I have intended to do a review, I just haven’t got to it yet. I’m trying to finalize my second book and get it to an editor. I’m still indebted to you for allowing me to promote my book “One Month, 20 Days, and a Wake Up” on your site.
Keep up the great work Brother. God Bless.
Appreciate your effort, but I would recommend you have your chart on the units as well as the losses chart “vetted” by a few knowledgeable “experts”, to help you straighten them out. I recommend you contact Joe Kline of Aviation Art fame, for one.
For instance, in your “loss chart” you lumped together CH-46/CH-47’s! That’s like lumping together UCLA and USC, or 747’s and B-52’s (both airplanes, right?)
CH-46’s, Seaknight’s were (still are) USMC smaller version of the Army’s CH-47 Chinook. Entirely different aircraft by an entirely different organization(s).
In your organization’s chart, under the 101st Airborne Division, A Troop (Assault), B Troop (Banshee) and C Troop (Condor), of the 2d Squadron/17 Cav, as well as A Battery, 377th Arty should be added.
Also under the 101st Airborne Division, the 159th Aviation Battalion (Assault Support) had four companys:
A/159th Avn Bn (Assault Support), (CH-47 Chinook) Call Sign “Pachyderm”
B/159th Avn Bn (Assault Support), (CH-47 Chinook) Call Sign “Varsity” (you had this company in seperate / different location and as an “assault” unit)
C/159th Avn Bn (Assault Support), (CH-47 Chinook) Call Sign “Playtex”
478th Avn Co. (Assault Support), (CH-54 Flying Crane) Call Sign “Hurricane” (this unit is also listed, erroneously as the 476th)
In addition, the 178th, the “Boxcars”, should be listed as an Assault Support Helicopter Company, NOT ‘Air Support’.
These are some examples, but not all. For what it’s worth.
I was with the ‘A’ 159thASHB from June68-June68. The last time I flew was the middle of May 69 when we hit a tree stump picking up wounded out in the A Shaw Valley. The Chopper was Pachyderm 718540. I have pictures of it (at least the parts)back at a supply dump( probable at Camp Eagle?) near the Phu Bai Air Port Paul Ulrich
Served in B/101st Avn. Bn with Paul Danner who posted above. Pilots were Mr. Harper and Mr. Sirls. Gunners were Richard Bumgardner, then Robert Casper. Ship was uh-1h 68-16341.
Have some additions for you, all the following served with the 101st Airborne –
D Co, 158 Avn Bn (Cobras) Redskins
A Co, 101st Avn Bn (Huey’s) Comancheros
A Btry 377 Arty (Huey and LOH) Gunner
A Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Dragons
B Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Toros
C Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Griffins
326 Med Bn (Huey’s) Eagle Dustoff
1st Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Deadbone
2nd Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Brandy
3rd Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Thunder
163 Avn Co. (LOH and Huey) Roadrunner
A Co, 159th Avn Bn (Chinooks) Pachyderms
C Co., 159th Avn Bn (Chinooks) Playtex
476 Avn Co (Cranes CH-54) Hurricanes
Don’t have patches readily available, most could be Googled.
Thanks!
Regarding the information on the 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division. 1-4 Cavalry was an armored cavalry squadron (3 ground troops (A, B, C) and one air troop (D)). The D Troop callsign was Darkhorse. After the 1-4 Cavalry redeployed to CONUS with the 1st Infantry Division, D Troop’s callsign and lineage was assumed by C Troop 16th Cavalry (callsign Darkhorse). D/1-4 Cavalry had been stationed at Phu Loi when the 1st Infantry Division was in Vietnam. After the division redeployed, C-16 Cavalry was stationed at Can Tho. Hope this is not too confusing (it is to me!). Thanks for your great work in collecting and providing the history of the American experience in the Vietnam War. Respectfully, Carl Bell
Thanks for posting your articles. In answer to your question: “who reads these…?” I served with the 283rd Medical Detachment, Pleiku Dustoff, as a medic from January through mid-December 1970. Memory being a “notorious liar”, I am always searching for historical information about the unit and I find that there is very little information out there. l
I never “understood” why helicopter cockpit-shields weren’t made more protective. Bullet-proof might have not been feasible (did anyone ever try?) but at least something better than the flimsy plexi-glass they used through the years (did they have foils, those days?). I know they put sandbags on the floor and over those small nose windows for additional protection.
Yes, weight, yes, costs etc. – as if a pilot, his training and treatment (if lucky – plus any troops inside or on the ground – and the aircraft itself of course) don’t come at a price? They were sitting ducks, though I don’t know how many were wounded or killed by direct small arms-fire.
Also, is it any better today? We’re talking half a century (!) – any lessons learned?
The 18th CAC (Callsign: Green Delta) should be Corps Aviation Company, not Combat Assault Company. Also 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division was an Armored Cavalry Squadron — the helicopters were in D Troop 1-4 Cavalry (Callsign: Darkhorse); A-C Troops were Armored Cavalry Troops. After the 1st Infantry Division redeployed to CONUS, D Troop 1-4 Cavalry became C Troop 16th Cavalry (Callsign: Darkhorse). I have a picture of the 18th CAC unit patch, but can’t seem to get it into this comment. If you’ll give me an email address to send it to, I’ll forward the picture to you. BTW, I really enjoy your articles and I’ve read your book. Keep up the good work.
Aviation units paid a heavy price in ‘72. I remember one night 2 downed cobras brought in slung under helicopters.
Says 15 kia in vfw magazine, at time of occurrence it was 30 kia and a .51-cal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K32_Strela-2
The Americal(23rd Infantry)choppers were, among others, the 176th Avn. Co., call sign was Minuteman then a number of course. Their gunships(usually older Hueys)were called Muskets. We also had a unit whose call sign was Blue Ghost. I think these were all gunships and a lot of them were Cobras
Without air cover, I would not be responding ! Helo pilots were all a couple bubbles off level and appeared to be fearless. Our main coverage was from Navy Seawolfs using old , under powered B model Huey’s. They did the best they could with what they had. Always overloaded , not enough fuel they saved our bacon many times. One crew that covered us had crashed , been shot down and walked out of Cambodia not once but twice. Thank God for them all !
Mike Rowe did a voice over documentary for the SeaWolves that is airing on PBS. http://mikerowe.com/2018/09/scramble-the-seawolves/ The most decorated Navy Squadron ever assembled is the least known. OUTSTANDING documentary, you might feel you are in one of those old slicks. I ride with some of those guys in the Run For The Wall group from LA to D.C. and Rolling Thunder. Thank you for your service, Welcome Home. Salute”
I do know without the Choppers, the Troops could never have went to all the places, they went there. They may have been able to however, it would have taken much longer. I’ve never been on/in a Chopper. And have no plans to, ever go in one.
Hi Or Thumbs To You All
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Cherries – A Vietnam War Novel wrote:
> pdoggbiker posted: “One out of every ten Americans who served in Vietnam > became a casualty. As a result, 58,169 were killed and 304,000 wounded out > of 2.29 million who served. Although the percent of dead is similar to > other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300% ” >
Hello, I found your site about 6 months ago. I was a crew chief on a UH-1d slicks with the 191st Assault helming co. stationed at Bearcat 3 corp from June 67-68. Your new email showed the Bounty Hunter patch which was our Gun ships. I have enclosed the slick patch which was the Boomerangs which had 2 flight white flight and yellow flight. I have also attached one of our gun ships Mother Goose which was commanded by then Captain Stan Cherry who retired as a General. Hope this helps, appreciate your site, by the way I burned shit for 31/2 weeks when I stopped flying missions. After the 3 1/2 of shit burning I decided to fly the rest of my tour.
Thanks Paul Vitale
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Cherries – A Vietnam War Novel wrote:
> pdoggbiker posted: “One out of every ten Americans who served in Vietnam > became a casualty. As a result, 58,169 were killed and 304,000 wounded out > of 2.29 million who served. Although the percent of dead is similar to > other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300% ” >
Casualty rates are suspect here. Where are they from? Death rates were not similar to previous wars; they were much lower. This is largely true due to helicopters. Also, one out of ten being casualties is way too high, even for aircrews or just infantry. However, lots of good info on the site, with great photos. Thanks for your work.
You’re missing 571st Med Det. Dustoff.
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Please add C/229th AHB 1st Air Cav. Many fine men survived in the unit over the course of the Viet Nam war
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ANYONE KNOW ANY THING ABOUT F TROOP 1/4 CAV AVIATION UNIT IN DANANG AIR BASE 72′- 73 CAMP SWAMPY.
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Why there’s not much about Darkhorse c/16 co.?Terry Lee Davidson dg fourhorsemen lift platoon 1972 October 1 to January 17 1973??
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Great site, excellent research.
Not sure if you’re still working this, but fwiw… I was in both 201st in 1980s and 377th Med Evac Co , you nailed the 201st callsign “Red Barons,” still used it in the 80s…. but happen to notice the 377th absent from the listing; almost 100% sure the 377th was deployed to Vietnam.
Kudos on a great site and thanks for all the hard work!
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I served as Crew chief for Major General George W Putnam jr. First Cavalry Battalion Commander. We had 8 helicopters and 16 crew members. I flew over 600 hours of CA time on 153 missions. Our specialty was inserting LRRPS. We were HHT 1/9. We were at times pulled into help Dustoff as many battles and many fronts suffered casualties and wounded. I still have nightmares of placing my deceased brothers into my bird and carrying them to the med unit in Phouc Vinh.
It would be nice to be listed amongst the troops of helicopter units. SGT Gagnon 1/9 HHT Flight Platoon leader.
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George Gagnon, I’d be glad to add the unit to the list, but don’t have a clue where to do so. Help me out and I’ll get it posted.
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Great article. For pictures of the 1st Bde, 5th Inf Div (Batman) logo, please go to our Facebook link https://www.facebook.com/groups/211983242724999/
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Do you know anyone who served with the A Company of 158th AHB during 69-72? I have a pilot who has cancer with a VA claim.
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Sorry, I do not. I was stationedat Quang Tri, with 1/5 Inf Bde Avn Section from June 1970 thru April 1971. During Lam Som 719 I was at the Red Devil Forward location working in the TOC Bde Avn Sec. My contact to other Avn units was next to nil.
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AMERICAL DIVISION Southern Cross Hq. Hq. Co. 123rd Aviation Battalion, 23rd Inf. Div. (Griffin). If you wish I can send you a photo of our unit patch.
BTW Loved the article.
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Great Job Posting all these Units
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From my August 20, 2017 comment: “I served as a trauma surgeon at the 85th Evac in Phu Bai.
We rededicated (originally dedicated in 1984) our local Vietnam Veterans Memorial to the 37 KIAs from our tri-county area in upstate NY in Sept. 2016. Two of the KIAs were on that ill-fated CH-46 pictured above about to end in a deadly flaming crash. It was Helicopter Alley, Quang Ngai Provence, 7/15/66.
Crew Chief Sgt. Robert R. Telfer, USMC, Fonda, NY
Cpl. Orson H. Case. USMC, Johnstown, NY”
For this and every Memorial Day: Thirty-seven young men (primarily kids) were killed in the Vietnam War from Fulton, Montgomery, and Hamilton Counties in Upstate New York. In 1984 the Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 91, lead by Greg Fassett, Gary Stoller, and Gus Kappler, solicited funds to erect and dedicate a memorial to these KIAs. Fulton Montgomery Community College granted permission to locate it on their campus. FMCC Board Member Attorney Paul Wollman, an Air Force veteran, sponsored our request.
The Memorial is located next to the 911 Memorial. Our Vietnam Memorial was rededicated in September 2016 when the “Traveling Wall” visited FMCC, and the 911 Memorial was dedicated. The daughters of Sergeant Telfer (KIA), Nancy, Joy, Dawn, and Bobbi, worked with Gary Stoller, Gus Kappler, and FMCC representatives to bring the event to fruition.
Please watch: https://youtu.be/_4pBmqQ5VKw
Visit: http://www.guskappler.com
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Gus: Were you at the 85th in early Oct of 68? I passed through there about that time and wonder if you worked on me. It’s a long time ago but was wondering.
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That was before I was there. Glad you made it home
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235th AHC, Delta Devils was a Cobra company at Cantho Army Airfield. I was a Cobra Crew Chief there from 6/21/68 – 6/29/70. Sp5 Rex Voelker.
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It was very enjoyable looking over the list of units and aircraft. On my first tour in 68 I flew OH 23s, OH 6s, and UH 1s. That OH 6 is a fine aircraft to crash in. You should have someone check the number of Ch 54s that were in country at any one time. If it was near 40 at the most I would be greatly surprised. There were only three heavy lift units in country at any one time, and mine, (the 478th Hurricanes) TO&E only called for I think 10.
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Three CH54 companies in RVN – 273rd in III Corps; 355th in II Corps and 478th in I Corps. TO&E called for 9 CH-54s tho we had 10 in the 478th when I was there. Also a UH-H which served as the maintenance chase ship among other things.
Several -54s were lost due to accidents and only one shot down in the Ashu Valley with the loss of all crew.
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I was there in 67-68 was only six in the 1st can at An Khe. In the fall of 67 three more can in country and was stationed at Vung Tau. I was with the maintenance det. and was part of the recovery team when two was crashed within ten days. One near an Lz in the west near the border and one at an Lz just north of AnKhe.
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Where is the USMC’s HMM-265 dragons? They were in Phu Bi in 1969. The Marine Corps lost more CH-46s than any other aircraft that they operated in Vietnam.
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The 18th Engineer Brigade had helicopters, callsign “Castle.” They were OH-58’s, but there may have been other types; I do not know. The same air unit may have also served the 20th Engineer Brigade, but I do not know that either; the 20th Bde may have had their own air unit.
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Very good article of Americans making sacrifices for others. I entered this site investigating the death of helicopter pilot with the 101st Airborne Aviation Group killed in Vietnam
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There is one mistake HMM 161 was not is not known as the Evil Eyes. The Evil Eyes were and are still today HMM 163. Please fix. How do I know this, I served in HMM 163 as a Crew Cheif.
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Thanks, David for pointing this out. I’ll make the change immediately. / John
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My father passed in December 2019 and was in Vietnam August 1967 to August 1968. He entered with the 4th Infantry Division (Camp Enari), and then moved to the 1st Aviation Brigade, 52nd Combat Aviation Battalion, 170th Assault Helicopter Company as a mechanic/gunner (Camp Holloway). My dad would only tell us (2 daughters and 1 son) that the war changed him.
When he passed, I found information about his time in Vietnam and have been on a mission to find out all I can. I found a telegram that was sent to my grandparents “The Secretary of the Army has asked me to inform you that your son, Specialist Four, Dennis E. Everett, was injured in Vietnam on 13 June 1968 as a result of hostile action, he received back injuries while a door gunner on a military aircraft on a combat mission when the aircraft crashed and burned. He was treated and hospitalized in Vietnam….”
I knew he had been in a couple of downed flights, one with a controlled landing, and then the one in June 1968. When I told my dad’s sisters that I was doing research, they both sent me the letters he had written home to them during his service. One of my aunt’s remembered him telling her about this crash. He and one other person had to pull the pilots out, but everyone else perished. His rifle had been destroyed in the crash so all he had was his pistol. There are more details about how they survived until rescued… but I won’t elaborate. Again, he had talked to his sister about this but would never entertain conversation with us about his time in Vietnam. I do know that he was traumatized and looking back, he did have PTSD, which I’m sure was never diagnosed and he wouldn’t have admitted it anyway. Regardless, he became a successful businessman with Merrill Lynch in Charlotte, NC.
I don’t have any other information about what type of chopper he was on or exactly where they went down. He was with the Flying Dragons/Bikini’s.
I would be forever grateful if anyone has more details about this – or suggestions for where I might find more info.
To all of you, I am so grateful for you all for your service. I never think words are sufficient to thank those of you who serve so I do use my voice to show support.
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Great research. BeeKeepers was maintenance with 116thAHC
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Two comments, 1 on helicopter units , 1 on book reviews.
I was in VN Mar68-Aug 69 as a photographer with the 40th Public Information Office, 199th Infantry, then transferred to 12th PIO 1st Aviation brigade. The writing on helicopter units and patches was great, but I would also like to see something on the geometric symbols like pentagons, diamonds, etc to identify units who helicopters belong to. I read the book reviews and there are plenty on pilots, grunts, etc. There are non about photographers or other media. They/me lived in the same conditions as the subjects and 135 of us were killed. To say we lived a easy job was not true. Thanks for your work about VN history.
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Nice video. city hookup near caringbah Dating Tips
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In reading your article AND the comments, it seems that there is still a lot of information about units that need to be told for the next generation in order for them to understand that it “TAKES US ALL” to remain free.
Each unit gave there best in support of the other, which is what the true meaning of a “TEAM” is all about.
Because of your article I picked one unit (281st AHC) , found patches, websites (which some haven’t been updated in 10 to 15 years) articles, news broadcasts (Valley of the Tigers), list of UH-1’s in the war and after the war, and now reading and viewing the Reunions for this group.
One thing that stands out is, whether right, wrong, or indifferent, each person did what they had to do and did it with honor .
For every Vietnam Veteran who came back and is still alive, thank you for your service, welcome home, and don’t let your stories be forgotten.
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I wrote a memoir about my time in Vietnam. Go to http://www.guskappler.com to download a free eBook. Lots of blood and guts. I story told to handle my PTS and gathered theemin 2015 into the book. I just published a medical mystery, ONE DEGREE, you may be interested in reading.
the following is an essay I just completed.
I Served Honorably in Vietnam
Now I’m Being Punished
Gus Kappler, MD
http://www.guskappler.com
I’m eighty years old and recently diagnosed with Chronic B-Cell Lymphocytic Leukemia (CLL). I am a young, vibrant eighty. I accepted the diagnosis. My blood counts are currently quite good; there is a significant risk of developing an aggressive form of CLL.
I understand that the causation of my CLL was beyond my control. I’m not referring to God, predestination, or family history.
Fifty years after arriving in wartime Vietnam, I am now a victim of Agent Orange. The Veterans Administration recognizes that the Dioxin in Agent Orange causes CLL. This herbicide was manufactured by Monsanto and Dow Chemical, who deceivingly guaranteed its safety when in contact with humans. There was suspicion of a former CEO of Dow falsified research reports proclaiming the herbicide’s safety. See: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Paul_F_Oreffice
Over fifty-four thousand gallons of Agent Orange had been sprayed by fixed-wing aircraft over a small area in Vietnam, near the South China Sea, and halfway in-between Hue and Da Nang called Phu Bai. There is no accounting of the additional amount sprayed by hand and from helicopters, vehicles, and boats.
See: http://cybersarges.tripod.com/AOphotos.html
So what?
Well, the 85th Evacuation Hospital, where I served as a trauma surgeon for a year, ’70-’71, was located there. We drank, made ice cubes, and showered with the contaminated water and inhaled Dioxin in the dust.
So far, I know of at least nine men I served with at the 85th Evac who have suffered from one or more Agent Orange-related diseases. Six of them are dead – colon cancer (denied by the VA), bladder cancer, prostate cancer, Parkinsonism, leukemia, lymphoma, diabetes, ischemic heart disease, basal cell skin cancers, and melanoma. See: https://youtu.be/g8BUnLPQDkw
How did this tragedy evolve?
Early on, our military leaders in Vietnam realized that fighting a guerrilla war against an indigenous enemy was a whole new ballgame. The Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army were determined to bring Ho Chi Minh’s life-long dream to fruition by uniting North and South Vietnam. They also wished to repulse the ill-conceived invasion of their sovereign country by the United States.
The jungle canopy obscured enemy movements. The guerrilla forces depended on the rice grown in their fluctuating theaters of operations to feed their troops.
Killing more than two birds with one stone, i.e., our soldiers, the military brass decided to irradicate the jungle canopy and crops by spraying herbicides. The enemy would be visualized and starved; not so, they moved at night and delivered rice down the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
The US government and military agreed, including presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, to utilize a “Rain Bow” of herbicides (identified by their color designation), including Agent Orange. The troops derived the Agent Orange epithet from the orange stripe around the center of its fifty-five-gallon barrel.
However, there was a significant contraindication to Agent Orange spraying. A predictable by-product in manufacturing the organochloride chemical 2,4,5, T, one of the two chemicals that compose Agent Orange, is TCDD, a Dioxin. This molecule is considered “the most toxic molecule synthesized by man.” Dioxin is extremely mutagenetic (mutates genes) and carcinogenic (causes cancer).
Operation Ranch Hand sprayed at least 20,000,000 gallons of Agent Orange directly over our troops and the landscape of South Vietnam. War planners increased the concentration of the sprayed solution to two parts per million. Five parts per trillion (100,000 times less) causes cancer in laboratory rats. Napalm was added to complete the devastation. It most likely aerosolized the Dioxin to more easily be inhaled.
We did not have a chance!
As Reported by Special Assistant Admiral E.R. Zumwalt, Jr., May 5, 1990 reveals an apathetic approach from the Department of Veteran Affairs.
“Classified” “Not for public release to the general public”
“When we (military scientists) initiated the herbicide program in the 1960s, we were aware of the potential damage due to Dioxin contamination in the herbicide. We were even aware that the ‘military6 formulation had a higher Dioxin concentration that the ‘civilian’ version due to the lower cost and speed of manufacture. However, because the material was to be used on the ‘enemy’, none of us were overly concerned. We never considered a scenario in which our own personnel would become contaminated with the herbicide. And, if we had, we would have expected our own government to give assistance to veterans so contaminated.”
See: http://gulfwarvets.com/ao.html
The definition of naiveté.
Yes, all the US government and military leaders did agree, including presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, to utilize multiple herbicides, including Agent Orange. Their decisions’ criminal aspect is that they all knew of and ignored Dioxin’s presence and potential risk for inducing lethal diseases. The first sinful act.
Our leaders disregarded the 1925 Geneva Protocol that prohibited the use of chemical and biological weapons. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Protocol
“Kennedy examined ‘tricks and gadgets’ that might give the South an edge in the jungle, and in November 1961 sanctioned the use of defoliants in a covert operation code-named Ranch Hand, every mission flown signed off by the president himself and managed in Saigon by the secret Committee 202…”
See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/29/usa.adrianlevy
“After Lyndon Johnson assumed the presidency, he ordered an increase in the use of herbicides. In 1968, Dr. Lee DuBridge warned President-elect Nixon about a National Institutes of Health study that showed a connection between the herbicides sprayed across Vietnam and ‘stillbirths and malformations in mice.’ Yet by 1970, 200,000 gallons a month of Agent Orange were being used. “Defense Secretary Melvin Laird considered curtailing the use of such herbicides,” says historian C.B. Currey, “but General Creighton Abrams, commander in Vietnam, and his boss, Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., Commander-in-Chief, Pacific, as well as Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reaffirmed the necessity for its use.”
And!
“During the war, many people understood some of the dangers and protested the use of Agent Orange. Congressman Robert W. Kastenmeier urged discontinuing the use of herbicides in Vietnam, a demand echoed by an editorial in the Washington Post. In 1967, Dr. Arthur W. Galston, often referred to as the man who discovered Dioxin in 1943, joined with other scientists to plead with Washington not to use Agent Orange in Vietnam. The Federation of American Scientists, members of the National Academy of Sciences, 17 Nobel laureates, the Rand Corporation and others urged terminating this form of chemical warfare. In fact, in 1969, United Nations Resolution No. 2603-A declared that the use of chemical agents in a manner used by the US in Vietnam was a violation of the 1925 Geneva Protocol, a war crime. The UN General Assembly passed this resolution by a vote of 80 to 3.” See: http://politicalaffairs.net/killing-me-softly-how-agent-orange-murders-vietnam-s-children/.
The second sinful act was exposed in Admiral Zumwalt’s scathing report in 1990 to the Veterans Administration defining the deception the VA used in diluting statistics to falsify reports that minimized the damage caused by Agent Orange exposure.
See: http://gulfwarvets.com/ao.html
The Vietnam War officially ended in 1975. Our Nation deployed over two million servicemen and women to Vietnam on land and sea. All, to varying degrees, were exposed to Agent Orange and other “Rain Bow” herbicides that contained Dioxin.
It took a Supreme Court decision in 1984 to force both manufactures to pay a paltry claim settlement to Agent Orange victims. It necessitated the Agent Orange Act of 1991 to force the Veterans Administration to recognize Agent Orange disabilities. Until that time, veterans suffered and died from various diseases directly caused by Dioxin. Their children were born with grotesque birth defects. They did not receive the compensation they certainly deserved from an agency representing the country they willingly and honorably served. This evasion of responsibility was a callous decision by our government and its politicians to discard and not help our warriors. Was it done for the nebulous rationalization of the “greater good?”
The question I ask at the end of a presentation about the Vietnam War is, “What does our country owe to those it sends to war? To rehabilitate or discard?”
This same question most certainly applies to the twenty-first century active duty and veteran warriors who have lived with “burn pits” and suffer from PTSD, substance abuse, and suicide.
See: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/us/politics/veterans-burn-pits-congress.html.
Also, see https://youtu.be/Q-FDupMy8J8.
When engaging these twenty-first century warriors, the Veterans Administration appears to be reincarnating the old playbook they applied to Agent Orange disability. But that is beyond the scope of my message.
Yes, I feel violated, deceived, victimized, cheated, and scared.
I do feel better having ventilated.
I love my country, would not wish to live elsewhere, and would, as most Vietnam Veterans, again serve in Vietnam.
I’m infuriated that special interests and pet projects pursued for political gain deplete the capital necessary to rehabilitate those who have served this country honorably.
Our great Nation should not discard its veterans! Never!
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Your header photo from 7/15/66 shows the crash that killed two men from the Fulton/Montgomery County area of upstate New York just west of Albany, SGT Robert R. Telfer (Fonda, NY) and CPL Orsen H. Case (Johnstown, NY). They, along with 35 others from our tri-country area, were honored in 1984 by dedicating our Vietnam Veterans Memorial at the local community college. We re-dedicated it in 2016.
Go to: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rurbd5g0xg620an/AADVnXryQHgF-Yj-6J5ub6vEa?dl=0
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Thank y ou so much for the information, Gus. I will add your info about the photo to the article.
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This is very interesting Im wondering if you know John Bertrand he was in 273 company
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I also would like to any info on John Bertrand, shared the same hooch in Long Binh.
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Great
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Anyone know a Bob Panzyk? Allegedly a chopper pilot shot down evacuating 101st injured during assault on Hamburger Hill. Also, allegedly a POW at the Hanoi Hilton from then to 1973. Can’t find any record of him.
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John Brough:
You missed the ‘c’: it’s a Polish name: Panczyk.
I searched for ‘bob Panczyk vietnam’ – several results that you could start with:
Robert, in 1967 – on a ship….. (‘BM’ stands for boatsman (I think) – so that’s not him – maybe family?)
http://www.hullnumber.com/crew1.php?cm=CAG-1
But also a Sara:
Sara Panczyk – University of Indianapolis
And a Rhonda:
https://rotary6380.org/Search/panc
Let us know if you find him – would make an interesting story here.
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I saw NO history about the H-21’s In Viet-Nam?
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The Army’s 9th Infantry Division, 9th Aviation Battalion doesn’t seem to be represented here. I was there July 68 to Jan 69 Bearcat and Dong Tam
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Sent from Xfinity Connect App D Troop 3rd of the 5th Cav.
When in Vietnam in 68 and 69 we had been under the 9th Division. When the 9th went home we were attached to the 1st Aviation Brigade. Our unit call signs were Lighthorse for our C and C bird, our Scouts were Warwagons, our Slicks were Longknives, and our guns were the Crusaders and our infantry platoon were the Doughboys. Where did the call signs in your listing come from? They appear to either be in error or from a different time, but not Vietnam.
Thanks, and Happy Holidays,
Paul B Longknife 27, Dustoff 12, Masher 11
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Looking for info on death of close friend and AIT class commander. Spec 4 Fred Oberding Killed around end of October 1972.
18th helicopter company.
Have read so many causes, firearm non hostile,
Helicopter crash. Only consistent is date of death. About same time of one of their chinooks being shot down by shoulder fired heat seeker, killing all on board. Any help would be appreciated.
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Wayne, sorry about your friend. I was assigned to the 18th CAC and was the OIC of the recovery of the CH-47 Chinook that was shot down on 31 October 1972 by a Russian made SA-7 missile. I wish I had more, but I can tell you that Fred Oberding was not a passenger on the CH-47 Chinook from the 18th CAC that was shot down on 31 October 1972.
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Ch 46 are not chinooks. You missed 11th combat aviation group. 62nd aviation company was part of it. Marble mountain then west gunfighter village DaNang
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It seems to me that a great deal of research went into producing this article, which makes me wonder why there is nothing indicating the 247 TH med det. out of Phan Rang.
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Pass on some info and a pic of the crest and I’ll add it to the article.
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Many of the Dustoff units had been small detachments. Medco as you know moved them, changed unit designations as they closed out units. .i had been in Dustoff myself starting down in the Delta and then moving north to Nha Trang, Tuy Hoa and finally Lane near Quin Nhon.
Though at lane I did most of my Dustoff work out of Nha Trang. Periodically we used to shuttle one of your pilots back and forth because his wife was in Nam as a missionary. I forget his name. You had billets if I recollect correctly on the east side of Pham Rang. Welcome home.
Paul B
Dustoff 12
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Reblogged this on OSDE.INFO.
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A/228th 1st Cav. Bearcat 8/69- 4/71
Bob Petrone SP5 Don’t hear much of Personal on web sites.Wonder how many left?
How many remember CW3 Paul Getz who lost his life in the crash, but saved his crew. A great man.
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Enjoyed the article and listings, though saw some errors. D troop 3rd of the 5th in 68, 69 and 70 used the called signs of Lighthorse for Hq and C and C birds, scouts were Warwagons, guns were Crusaders, slicks were Longknives, and our ground platoon had been Doughboys. In the late 70s after flying Dustoff for awhile I moved over to Bravo of the 227th and their callsign had been the potato mashers which became shortened to be just the mashers until I left in late 71.
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My father, Jeffrey L Brown, was a Cobra pilot in Vietnam, 1969-1971. Far more decorated than he’d ever let on. I only discovered since his passing 2months ago, just how much. Flew helicopters from age 19 – 66. An aerial ace without a doubt! My hero…
Just researching in hopes of finding out more about him & his “brothers”
, photos, stories, anything.
101st airborne WO3 92D
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My brother in law did two tours in Vietnam he brought home a banner that says BILLY BULL DOG ,WITH A PICTURE OF A BULL DOG,he was a door gunner on a Huey, can you give any info on this banner,ty
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The 179th was an “Assault Support Helicopter Company”..not “Air Assault” as was typed . Very Good listing and I thank you.
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The 205th Assault Support Helicopter Company Geronimos
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Fantastic article . Served as a volunteer door gunner with
c / 101st Avn Bn . I was bored as company armour .
Sept 70 — Oct 71.
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Good article. However, figures for H-34s lost is way, way, way off. Marines used them extensively and many were lost.
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I served as a trauma surgeon at the 85th Evac in Phu Bai.
We rededicated (originally dedicated in 1984) our local Vietnam Veterans Memorial to the 37 KIAs from our tri-county area in upstate NY in Sept. 2016. Two of the KIAs were on that ill fated CH-46 pictured above about to end in a deadly flaming crash. It was Helicopter Alley, Quang Ngai Provence, 7/15/66.
Crew Chief Sgt. Robert R. Telfer, USMC, Fonda, NY
Cpl. Orsen H. Case. USMC, Johnstown, NY
Please e-mail me so that we may share ideas and information.
I recently self published Welcome Home From Vietnam, Finally, A Vietnam
Trauma Surgeon’s Memoir (Amazon.com) and have been active in veterans affairs since returning home. I now research and discuss preventive measures, PRIOR to discharge, to molify PTS, PTS(D) and suicide.
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Another excellent read. Really inducing some goosebumps (& a bit o’ dampness) Pdogg. Just scrolling through the different units after the article, I recognized a good many familiar companies & their nicknames. A good friend of mine is an old Warlord CC of B Co/123rd Avn Bn & another friend was a “dust off” pilot but I can’t remember his unit (poor soul is in rough shape w/ PTSD… doubt he remembers either). Hang tough, Denny!!!
My small hometown area lost 47 young warriors to Nam, among them several rotary aviators. Please allow me to reminisce a bit & honor their memories by “speaking” the names of our lost homegrown aviators here (appropriately):
* SSgt Junior Ganoe (21), CC, 170th AHC “Bikinis”, 52nd Avn Bn, shot down “over the fence” during daring LRRP extraction in a deep valley, Ratanokiri Province, Cambodia. MIA 3/24/70– KIA (Presumptive Finding of Death)1/16/74. Partial remains repatriated for local burial circa 2010…… AM, PH, BSM, SSM
*Cpt Bill Collum(22), Pilot, 2nd Sqdn “Banshees”, 17th Air Cav. Shot down in A Shau during furious
mountaintop Ranger extraction attempt. Door gunners exited just as chopper was hit, before it tumbled down mountainside, flattened & inverted, lodged in trees for many hours w/ pilots pinned inside. KIA 4/23/71, recovered…… AM, PH The other pilot, Cpt Louis Speidel, was severely injured, eventually rescued but died a month later from his injuries…. AM, PH, BSM, DFC
*SP4 Glenn Andreotta(20), CC or DG, 123rd Avn Bn “Warlords”, Americal Div. SP4 Andreotta was CC on the chopper that “intervened” in the My Lai incident. He exited the chopper & waded through a ditch of dead bodies to rescue children. Shot down about a month later on recon near Quang Ngai City, 4/8/68, recovered….. AGCM, ARCOM, AM, PH, BSM w/ V device, Soldier’s Medal.
*(Cousin) CWO3 Tommy Condrey (24), Pilot, 281st AHC “Wolfpack”, 10th Avn Bn. Shot down in A Shau flying fire support during hot LRRP extraction. Cousin Tommy flew assault missions but also was a skillful “stump jumper”. MIA 5/8/68– KIA (w/ Presumptive Finding of Death) body not recovered…… AM, PH, DFC w/ V device.
Rest peacefully with your brothers, our “forever young” hometown warriors……
Thanks, Pdoggbiker
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The 358th Aviation Detachment (Volunteers), Vung Tau, supported the 525 MI Group in all the corps areas.
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Hi Bob,
Lot of information. I was the Maintenance Officer for the 358th Avn. Det. in Vung Tau from March of 1971 to Feb. 1972. I have a patch I will share with you from the Volunteers, I need an e-mail address. We had 5 UH-1H Models, one stationed in each Corp., also three Beavers and one U-21 all based out of Vung Tau. We were the air arm for the 525th Military Intel. Group. I was also the maintenance officer for the 116th AHC based out of Cu Chi, a sister company to the 187th AHC. I was there August 1967 to August 1968. I also have some patches I will share with you from the 116th AHC.
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Cecil,
I also filled in as a door gunner for about half-a-dozen times when one of the door gunners was sick. Because I was the only intel analyst for our unit (571st MI Det. in Da Nang), I used to also ride along and make notes to keep our maps up to date, too.
I wrote an article for the VHCMA early-last year about it.
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Cecil, I was wondering if you may have served with my friend, Fred Follette who served with the 116th AHC from January 1968 thru May 3, 1969 when he was killed in action?
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What about those Ghostriders? A Company, 158th Aviation Battalion (Assault Helicopter),
101st Airborne Division (Airmobile).
I did not serve but have been involved in two reunions with these gents. Bad Boys, Great Souls. Thanks to all . . .
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Hi John,
You continue to amaze me with the depth of research and information gathering you are willing to do. With men like you, the awareness and the honor of those that served will never be forgotten. As I told you the first time I found your site, it is easy to get lost on your site and not appear until weeks later.
BTW, I read your second book and enjoyed it. I have intended to do a review, I just haven’t got to it yet. I’m trying to finalize my second book and get it to an editor. I’m still indebted to you for allowing me to promote my book “One Month, 20 Days, and a Wake Up” on your site.
Keep up the great work Brother. God Bless.
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Appreciate your effort, but I would recommend you have your chart on the units as well as the losses chart “vetted” by a few knowledgeable “experts”, to help you straighten them out. I recommend you contact Joe Kline of Aviation Art fame, for one.
For instance, in your “loss chart” you lumped together CH-46/CH-47’s! That’s like lumping together UCLA and USC, or 747’s and B-52’s (both airplanes, right?)
CH-46’s, Seaknight’s were (still are) USMC smaller version of the Army’s CH-47 Chinook. Entirely different aircraft by an entirely different organization(s).
In your organization’s chart, under the 101st Airborne Division, A Troop (Assault), B Troop (Banshee) and C Troop (Condor), of the 2d Squadron/17 Cav, as well as A Battery, 377th Arty should be added.
Also under the 101st Airborne Division, the 159th Aviation Battalion (Assault Support) had four companys:
A/159th Avn Bn (Assault Support), (CH-47 Chinook) Call Sign “Pachyderm”
B/159th Avn Bn (Assault Support), (CH-47 Chinook) Call Sign “Varsity” (you had this company in seperate / different location and as an “assault” unit)
C/159th Avn Bn (Assault Support), (CH-47 Chinook) Call Sign “Playtex”
478th Avn Co. (Assault Support), (CH-54 Flying Crane) Call Sign “Hurricane” (this unit is also listed, erroneously as the 476th)
In addition, the 178th, the “Boxcars”, should be listed as an Assault Support Helicopter Company, NOT ‘Air Support’.
These are some examples, but not all. For what it’s worth.
John Hendrickson
“Varsity 16”
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I was with the ‘A’ 159thASHB from June68-June68. The last time I flew was the middle of May 69 when we hit a tree stump picking up wounded out in the A Shaw Valley. The Chopper was Pachyderm 718540. I have pictures of it (at least the parts)back at a supply dump( probable at Camp Eagle?) near the Phu Bai Air Port Paul Ulrich
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478th Avn Co (Heavy Helicopter) was attached to the 159th ASHB until April 1971.
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I have enjoyed your article very much, looking forward to reading more.
!7thSOS AC119g Shadow Gunship Crew Chief PRAB 69/70
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like your article will visit more I was a crew chief 101abnKINGSMAN
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Served in B/101st Avn. Bn with Paul Danner who posted above. Pilots were Mr. Harper and Mr. Sirls. Gunners were Richard Bumgardner, then Robert Casper. Ship was uh-1h 68-16341.
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Have some additions for you, all the following served with the 101st Airborne –
D Co, 158 Avn Bn (Cobras) Redskins
A Co, 101st Avn Bn (Huey’s) Comancheros
A Btry 377 Arty (Huey and LOH) Gunner
A Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Dragons
B Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Toros
C Btry 4/77 ARA (Cobras) Griffins
326 Med Bn (Huey’s) Eagle Dustoff
1st Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Deadbone
2nd Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Brandy
3rd Bde Hdqtrs (LOH and Huey) Thunder
163 Avn Co. (LOH and Huey) Roadrunner
A Co, 159th Avn Bn (Chinooks) Pachyderms
C Co., 159th Avn Bn (Chinooks) Playtex
476 Avn Co (Cranes CH-54) Hurricanes
Don’t have patches readily available, most could be Googled.
Thanks!
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Thanks Larry! I’ve added the units but only found four patches. Some of the others are listed elsewhere (Commancheros, Griffins, etc)
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Change 476 Avn Co to 478 Avn Co (Skycrane CH54A) Hurricane
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Regarding the information on the 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division. 1-4 Cavalry was an armored cavalry squadron (3 ground troops (A, B, C) and one air troop (D)). The D Troop callsign was Darkhorse. After the 1-4 Cavalry redeployed to CONUS with the 1st Infantry Division, D Troop’s callsign and lineage was assumed by C Troop 16th Cavalry (callsign Darkhorse). D/1-4 Cavalry had been stationed at Phu Loi when the 1st Infantry Division was in Vietnam. After the division redeployed, C-16 Cavalry was stationed at Can Tho. Hope this is not too confusing (it is to me!). Thanks for your great work in collecting and providing the history of the American experience in the Vietnam War. Respectfully, Carl Bell
Carl “Skip” Bell bell0845@bellsouth.net (770) 548-7991 (M)
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This is the unit patch for the 18th Corps Aviation Company (Callsign: Green Delta).
Carl “Skip” Bell bell0845@bellsouth.net (770) 548-7991 (M)
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Skip – no photos attached, brother! send via email.
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Thanks for posting your articles. In answer to your question: “who reads these…?” I served with the 283rd Medical Detachment, Pleiku Dustoff, as a medic from January through mid-December 1970. Memory being a “notorious liar”, I am always searching for historical information about the unit and I find that there is very little information out there. l
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Great post, John – you did a lot of research!
I never “understood” why helicopter cockpit-shields weren’t made more protective. Bullet-proof might have not been feasible (did anyone ever try?) but at least something better than the flimsy plexi-glass they used through the years (did they have foils, those days?). I know they put sandbags on the floor and over those small nose windows for additional protection.
Yes, weight, yes, costs etc. – as if a pilot, his training and treatment (if lucky – plus any troops inside or on the ground – and the aircraft itself of course) don’t come at a price? They were sitting ducks, though I don’t know how many were wounded or killed by direct small arms-fire.
Also, is it any better today? We’re talking half a century (!) – any lessons learned?
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Excellent article John, thank you. God Bless!!
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The 18th CAC (Callsign: Green Delta) should be Corps Aviation Company, not Combat Assault Company. Also 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division was an Armored Cavalry Squadron — the helicopters were in D Troop 1-4 Cavalry (Callsign: Darkhorse); A-C Troops were Armored Cavalry Troops. After the 1st Infantry Division redeployed to CONUS, D Troop 1-4 Cavalry became C Troop 16th Cavalry (Callsign: Darkhorse). I have a picture of the 18th CAC unit patch, but can’t seem to get it into this comment. If you’ll give me an email address to send it to, I’ll forward the picture to you. BTW, I really enjoy your articles and I’ve read your book. Keep up the good work.
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Thanks for the info brother. I’ll make the changes. Email: john.podlaski@gmail.com
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I was the courier at Can Tho sent with the crew’s paperwork to Ton Son Nhut. We were on red alert. Vietnamization didn’t seem to be working too well.
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=76001
The last us army ch-47 lost
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?AcType=H47&sorteer=datekey&page=2
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Aviation units paid a heavy price in ‘72. I remember one night 2 downed cobras brought in slung under helicopters.
Says 15 kia in vfw magazine, at time of occurrence it was 30 kia and a .51-cal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K32_Strela-2
http://digitaledition.qwinc.com/publication/?p=19&i=141082&ver=swf&pp=1&zoom=0
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The Americal(23rd Infantry)choppers were, among others, the 176th Avn. Co., call sign was Minuteman then a number of course. Their gunships(usually older Hueys)were called Muskets. We also had a unit whose call sign was Blue Ghost. I think these were all gunships and a lot of them were Cobras
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It,s Great–I was in F troop 8th air cavalry–anyone else there?
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F Troop also, 2/72-2/73.
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Without air cover, I would not be responding ! Helo pilots were all a couple bubbles off level and appeared to be fearless. Our main coverage was from Navy Seawolfs using old , under powered B model Huey’s. They did the best they could with what they had. Always overloaded , not enough fuel they saved our bacon many times. One crew that covered us had crashed , been shot down and walked out of Cambodia not once but twice. Thank God for them all !
Sent from my iPad
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So true, my brother! A medevac saved my life!
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Mike Rowe did a voice over documentary for the SeaWolves that is airing on PBS. http://mikerowe.com/2018/09/scramble-the-seawolves/ The most decorated Navy Squadron ever assembled is the least known. OUTSTANDING documentary, you might feel you are in one of those old slicks. I ride with some of those guys in the Run For The Wall group from LA to D.C. and Rolling Thunder. Thank you for your service, Welcome Home. Salute”
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159th Medical Detachment (Helicopter ambulance) –Blackhawk chopper–
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I crewed for a Pilot named Robert Traub. 283rd Dustoff, Pleiku 1970!
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I do know without the Choppers, the Troops could never have went to all the places, they went there. They may have been able to however, it would have taken much longer. I’ve never been on/in a Chopper. And have no plans to, ever go in one.
Hi Or Thumbs To You All
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Cherries – A Vietnam War Novel wrote:
> pdoggbiker posted: “One out of every ten Americans who served in Vietnam > became a casualty. As a result, 58,169 were killed and 304,000 wounded out > of 2.29 million who served. Although the percent of dead is similar to > other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300% ” >
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Very true Okie!
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Hello, I found your site about 6 months ago. I was a crew chief on a UH-1d slicks with the 191st Assault helming co. stationed at Bearcat 3 corp from June 67-68. Your new email showed the Bounty Hunter patch which was our Gun ships. I have enclosed the slick patch which was the Boomerangs which had 2 flight white flight and yellow flight. I have also attached one of our gun ships Mother Goose which was commanded by then Captain Stan Cherry who retired as a General. Hope this helps, appreciate your site, by the way I burned shit for 31/2 weeks when I stopped flying missions. After the 3 1/2 of shit burning I decided to fly the rest of my tour.
Thanks Paul Vitale
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Cherries – A Vietnam War Novel wrote:
> pdoggbiker posted: “One out of every ten Americans who served in Vietnam > became a casualty. As a result, 58,169 were killed and 304,000 wounded out > of 2.29 million who served. Although the percent of dead is similar to > other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300% ” >
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Don’t see your photos, brother!
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Casualty rates are suspect here. Where are they from? Death rates were not similar to previous wars; they were much lower. This is largely true due to helicopters. Also, one out of ten being casualties is way too high, even for aircrews or just infantry. However, lots of good info on the site, with great photos. Thanks for your work.
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